Ref's... thanks for listening!

[Y2Koach]

Var tournament, back and forth game, just before half time, we (team A, visitors playing against the tournament host school) are defense. B3 sets an illegal screen and a foul is called. A5 is sent to the line for a one and one. I try to summon an official over to ask why we are shooting since it is a team control foul. Official closest to me puts his hand out (the "don't talk to me, coach" hand) and says "he stuck his knee out coach, he can't do that!". I tell him "it was MY PLAYER that got fouled! I just wanted to..." and he replies "we're not discussing this now". Table hits the horn to try to clarify the situation and the official walks to about the mid-court circle and yells "foul, B3, block, one and one" and turns away before the scorer can say anything. Luckily (?) we only made one freethrow.

As we walk into the locker room for halftime, I walk by the officials partner and ask "why did we shoot that FT? Wasn't the bad screen a team control foul?" He looks at me with an embarassed look and says "Oh sh!t, I think we kicked it, I'll talk to my partner". Coming out of the locker room to start the 2nd half, I asked the partner if I was correct. Before he could answer, the first official comes running over screaming "you can't talk to him, go back to your bench!". I smile at the partner, shrug my shoulders and walk towards our bench. As I walk away, I can faintly hear the parnter telling the first official "you can't give him a T cuz WE were wrong, he hasn't raised his voice all game, calm down."

We end up losing that game by 4 points. It would have sucked if we would've won the game with a couple of points that we were not supposed to have from those FT's, although there's no telling what would have happened if we took the ball out on the side (2pt, 3pt, their best player picks up a foul, we turn it over, etc...).

[SamIAm]

Should the table ask for clarification if what is signalled and what is taking place is not possible per the rules? I think this question would likely only apply at the varsity level as the table at lower level games may not have sufficient knowledge.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

....as the table at lower level games may not have sufficient knowledge.

Ya think? I was keeping the clock/score board for a Freshman game recently and had one score book person ask me if a violation was the same thing as a foul?

[refnrev]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Ya think? I was keeping the clock/score board for a Freshman game recently and had one score book person ask me if a violation was the same thing as a foul?

What did you say?

It sounds like we had a little too much ego on the court that night. It's one thing to ignore whining or complaining, but quite another to ignore a politely asked question. (I assume you were in the box and not ranting and raving.) And when the table needs clarification, I'm walking over and talking to them, not shouting from mid court. It looks better to consult, correct, and get it right than to kick it!

[grunewar]

It was early in the year and I was a novice score board keeper (now I have all of four games under my belt ). The score book person must have been all of 15 yrs old. I guess I just figured as you get into the HS level there would be someone with a little more knowledge than just - "Hey you!" keeping the books. WRONG! (sarc)

PS - I was the "Hey You" scorekeeper (with some experience though).
PSS - Yes, I was nice!

[icallfouls]

It would seem to reason that the other coach would also know this rule and want to know why FT's were shot on a team control foul. He must've not known the rule any better than the varsity officials.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Ya think? I was keeping the clock/score board for a Freshman game recently and had one score book person ask me if a violation was the same thing as a foul?

Only in traffic court.

[Stat-Man]

During the first year NFHS adopted the team control foul rule, we had a MS Girls game (away) where one of our players was called for an illegal screen and the official wanted to shoot the bonus. Home scorer was a B-game player so I just asked the official after he announced the bonus "Isn't an illegal screen a team control foul?" I could see the light bulb turn on and he realized that there were no free throws.

Even when approiached politely, some are recpetive, and some aren't. *shrugs* There's not much one can do in the latter case.

[Adam]

I'm just surprised that officials that "unapproachable" make it to varsity in various areas. Maybe I should move.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

Should the table ask for clarification if what is signalled and what is taking place is not possible per the rules? ...

It's something I pre-game with the table when I'm the crew chief. I ask them not let us (the officials) screw up if they see us doing something wrong.