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-   -   Angry Coach at Halftime (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/50578-angry-coach-halftime.html)

Adam Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeBallanfant (Post 562711)
Same here and if he showed us complete respect the whole game I would not even report the incident.
Thank God! For a second there, I thought I wasn't going to have anything to disagree with.

LeeBallanfant Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 562714)
Thank God! For a second there, I thought I wasn't going to have anything to disagree with.
Why report him. He is on my short leash forever and knows it.

Adam Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeBallanfant (Post 562720)
Why report him. He is on my short leash forever and knows it.
Two for two. :)

I'm reporting it because his behavior has no place in high school sports. If the AD wants to do nothing with the report, not my problem. If the state wants to do nothing with the report, not my problem. I'd report that just as I'd report him pounding on the dressing room door after a game.

I'll agree to putting him on a short leash during the game. However, after the game, it's over. Next game will be a clean slate.

deecee Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:50pm
This sounds like a certain school in southern california maybe?

As much as you might want to T here you can't and shouldn't. Unless a coach directly assaults you (verbally or physically) during half time you can't go after him here. But you DON'T have to take an iota of crap once the game starts from him or his players.

I also don't hold coaches or players guilty from one game to another. I might know a coach is an a-hole and I might not grant him as much patience in the future, but the leash isnt really that much shorter than usual, I would just ask him to put a stop to his whining sooner than I might. This takes years of pattern building and a-hole'dness to reach this level.

Adam Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 562738)
This sounds like a certain school in southern california maybe?

As much as you might want to T here you can't and shouldn't. Unless a coach directly assaults you (verbally or physically) during half time you can't go after him here.
Got a rule quote for this?

deecee Tue Dec 30, 2008 01:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 562740)
Got a rule quote for this?
Yes -- the coach isnt directly addressing the officials and its in the locker room! I am all for T's when they are necessary, and I think they are way more necessary than they are used and not enough are called. But this situation is a reach.

Adam Tue Dec 30, 2008 01:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 562742)
Yes -- the coach isnt directly addressing the officials and its in the locker room! I am all for T's when they are necessary, and I think they are way more necessary than they are used and not enough are called. But this situation is a reach.
That's not a rule.
First off, you know he doesn't have to directly address you in order to get a T.

Secondly, the case play has already been provided showing the rules apply to the locker room as well. Show me the rule that says you can't call this T.

LDUB Tue Dec 30, 2008 01:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 562545)
Charging the HC with TF in this situation is a no win situation because it cannot be defended by rule, now matter how many different rules are quoted.
If you don't want to call the foul, whatever I don't care, that is up to you. But you can't sit here and say that the rules do not allow calling the foul. You know that is wrong. The officials have jurisdiction everywhere until the game ends.

Ch1town Tue Dec 30, 2008 01:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 562742)
Yes -- the coach isnt directly addressing the officials and its in the locker room!
On defense in the 1st half, coach of Team B says to his players "move your feet, these refs are calling ticky-tack fouls on our end".
This type of commentary continues a few more trips down the court.

We let this slide because coach is not directly addressing us??
Or are you saying ignore comments not made directly to us during intermissions??

deecee Tue Dec 30, 2008 01:30pm
Snaq -- are you referring to the situation with the electronics (because that doesnt apply) or 10.4.1 SITUATION B: where its in a public hall and not in THEIR locker room where they have an expectation of privacy. Neither of these cover a T in this situation.


So SNAQ where does it say YOU SHOULD????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch1town (Post 562747)
On defense in the 1st half, coach of Team B says to his players "move your feet, these refs are calling ticky-tack fouls on our end".
This type of commentary continues a few more trips down the court.

We let this slide because coach is not directly addressing us??
Or are you saying ignore comments not made directly to us during intermissions??

All I will say to the coach if he says this a couple times is move on from that point. Besides this is good coaching -- he recognizes how we are calling the game (he might not like it) but hes telling his kids to PLAY BETTER DEFENSE. Why would I get upset at this comment. Coaches who cry "Three Seconds" "Thats a travel" blah blah blah, does not bother me. They are just crying for calls. I would not waste my breath on a coach if I hear him say this in a huddle.

Adam Tue Dec 30, 2008 01:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 562749)
Snaq -- are you referring to the situation with the electronics (because that doesnt apply) or 10.4.1 SITUATION B: where its in a public hall and not in THEIR locker room where they have an expectation of privacy. Neither of these cover a T in this situation.

So SNAQ where does it say YOU SHOULD????
The first one shows we have jurisdiction in the locker room. The 2nd is irrelevant, as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not arguing that you should. I'm arguing that you can.

rockyroad Tue Dec 30, 2008 01:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 562752)

I'm not arguing that you should. I'm arguing that you can.
So you also then are arguing that it's OK if you don't, right? Just asking because you are kind of confusing me (yeah, yeah, I know it doesn't take much. Shutup.).

deecee Tue Dec 30, 2008 01:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 562752)
The first one shows we have jurisdiction in the locker room. The 2nd is irrelevant, as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not arguing that you should. I'm arguing that you can.
It shows we can WHEN the coach uses electronics to gain an advantage. I think you are reaching here. Either way I would not call a T, but I sure as hell wont give the coach much latitude in the second half.

PeteBooth Tue Dec 30, 2008 01:52pm
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 562268)
NevadaRef has quoted a NFHS Casebook Play that deals specifically with certain electronic equipment whose use is specifically prohibited by rule. As much as much as we would like to apply this Casebook Play to the situation in the OP we cannot because it does not apply.

One could rely on the NCAA's position that if a Head Coach's inappropriate language can be heard outside of the huddle during a timeout, the game officials should penalize the Head Coach. But, I seriously doubt that the NCAA's position could be applied to the same situation in the OP if the game was played using NCAA Rules.

I have no doubt that the Head Coach knew that the game officials could hear his diatribe and that his diatribe was deliberately directed toward the game officials because of that fact. BUT, more experienced game officials were correct in not giving the Head Coach at TF under these circumstances. BESIDES, once the second half started, I am sure that, without baiting the HC, the officiating crew would have a zero tolerance,:D, for either coach stepping out of the coaching box.

MTD, Sr.
Mark this OP was brought over to the baseball side as well.

So here's my question

Forget about the comments made about officials.

Suppose you heard the following:

Hey Jimmy (who is the last person on the sub list) Tommy (on the other team) is "kiliing us" I want you to "take him out"

I believe this sort of "stuff" happened at the University of Minnesota many moons ago. Can't remember the coach but it was a pretty gruesome story.

In Conclusion: You as officials hear this coach tell one of his HS players to do harm to another player on another team.

What do you do

Me: Assuming I heard a baseball coach tell one of his players to take out another player. Coach is done and report filed.

Pete Booth

Adam Tue Dec 30, 2008 01:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 562756)
It shows we can WHEN the coach uses electronics to gain an advantage. I think you are reaching here. Either way I would not call a T, but I sure as hell wont give the coach much latitude in the second half.
There are only two scenarios where you would possibly have a rule infraction in the locker room. Unsporting behavior (the OP) and illegal use of media.

The case play tells us specifically we can call the T in one. It's silent on the other. I don't think it's much of a stretch to use the precedent from the case play and apply it to the OP.

It's more than a stretch to claim we don't have jurisdiction here. It's a leap.


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