4 ot

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

And thanks for reminding me to put in one last 2008 plug for eliminating the last jump ball left over from a different era in time.

Monday night, as the umpire I missed the jumper tip, and then catch the tip. I was too busy watching the eight nonjumpers, but it's still not a good excuse. My partner, the referee, told me that by the time he put the whistle back in his mouth, he thought it was to late, not by rule, but just way too late to call the violation. None of the coaches, players, or fans complained. I will admit that I'm not as familiar with all the jump ball requirements as I was when we were having several jump balls in each game. Again, not a good excuse, but this method of starting a game should be done away with. Dr. Naismith originally had jump balls after every goal, then we progressed to only having jump balls to start periods, and to make the ball live after held ball situations, and now we only have jump balls to start the game, and extra periods. The natural progression is to now do away with all jump balls. We no longer use Dr. Naismith's rule regarding ending the game in a tie, or in sudden death, so why keep his jump ball rule? He is more likely to roll over in his grave due to what NBA players are now allowed to do with their pivot foot, than he is to roll over because we did away with his precious jump ball.

Now, do you want me to tell you what I really think?

Sorry, BM I gotta disagree with you here.

In fact, I hate this suggestion.

APAs take less time than jump ball, so if your concern is that the one jump ball takes more time than a coin toss, then I say that the time difference is measured in under 30 seconds. Hardly worth the change. On the other hand, keeping the jump ball is consistent with other aspects of basketball: height is rewarded for the better chance at rebounds, and therefore the better chance at securing the first possession. But, like any rebound, it doesn't guarantee the first possession.

[26 Year Gap]

I would not go to a coin flip. I would have the visitors have the first inbound.

[shishstripes]

If OT's are a continuation of the 4th qtr and everything is carried over, why not start OT's with APA? I still like starting the game with jump ball. But we have really hijacked this thread with this conversation.

[Mark Padgett]

I really don't have anything to say about this situation since it obviously didn't really happen, but was just a bad dream.

[fullor30]

Nice!!!!!

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

I really don't have anything to say about this situation since it obviously didn't really happen, but was just a bad dream.

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Please!!! Inform your children!!! This is what happens when you swallow your bubblegum!!!!

p.s. I could live with A/P to start OT. In 8 years of GV, I've been in two, so not a big deal.

[mj]

I like the 'drama' of a jump ball to start a game. If you get a great student section they are all screaming and hollering when they are all lined up until the toss goes up. It kind of jacks me up too.

I don't think you'd get that with a coin flip.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

APAs take less time than jump ball, so if your concern is that the one jump ball takes more time than a coin toss, then I say that the time difference is measured in under 30 seconds. Hardly worth the change. On the other hand, keeping the jump ball is consistent with other aspects of basketball: height is rewarded for the better chance at rebounds, and therefore the better chance at securing the first possession. But, like any rebound, it doesn't guarantee the first possession.

The time element doesn't figure into my equation, but you do make an excellent point about the more athletic team having a better, but not 100% chance of getting the first possession. You're right, the jump ball is an important part of basketball, but so was the peach basket, at one time.

My reasons to do away with all jump balls:
1) It's a part of the natural order of rule progression, as stated in my earlier post.
2) With only one jump ball (usually) a game, most coaches don't take the time to understand the jump ball rules.
3) With only one jump ball (usually) a game, coaches don't teach kids the rules about jump balls, because they don't really understand them themselves.
4) With only one jump ball (usually) a game, most players don't understand the rules about jump balls.
5) With only one jump ball (usually) a game, many officials don't practice their jump ball technique as much as we used to back in the good old days, tossing it up and into a hoop over and over again.
6) With only one jump ball (usually) a game, many officials don't spend as much time studying the rules about jump balls, and the jump ball rules are about as complex (before the toss, during the toss, after the tap, jumpers, nonjumpers, on the circle, off the circle, etc.) as rules can be for a situation that lasts only a few seconds (at the most), and happens only once (usually) a game.
7) It will give us a real reason to get the captains and coaches together pregame, instead of the usual players properly equipped, wearing uniforms properly, good sportsmanship, speech that we now give.
8) Other sports start games with a coin toss.

Each reason, individually, is not a good reason to do away with jump balls, but taken together, as a group, I believe that a pretty good argument is presented.

Some of these reasons are really not excusable. Officials should practice tossing, and officials should know the jump ball rules like the back of their hand, but many of us, including me, don't, because it happens only once a game, it's over in a few seconds (tops), and many of us just want to get it over with and get into the flow of the game, hoping that nothing "weird" happens during the jump ball, and if it does, that it's obvious enough for us to recognize the violation, and call it.

How many Forum members, and I know that there are probably several esteemed members out there that can, can actually recite all the jump ball rules, book, chapter, and verse, not only without looking at the rulebook, but who can call all the various jump ball violations in those first few hectic seconds of the game?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

8) Other sports start games with a coin toss.

Each reason, individually, is not a good reason to do away with jump balls, but taken together, as a group, I believe that a pretty good argument is presented.

I, for one, would be disappointed if the jump ball was removed from the game. It's a basketball tradition. Over the history of the game, the jump ball has played an integral part. For much of this time, there was a jump after every made basket. No other game has had jump balls. Let them start with a coin toss if they want. Changing this would be like having a coin toss to determine who bats first in a baseball game instead of continuing having the visiting team bat first. There's something to be said for tradition.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Over the history of the game, the jump ball has played an integral part. For much of this time, there was a jump after every made basket. No other game has had jump balls. Changing this would be like having a coin toss to determine who bats first in a baseball game instead of continuing having the visiting team bat first. There's something to be said for tradition.

Agree. I believe that it's tradition that's keeping the NFHS, and NCAA, from taking the next step and eliminating the jump ball completely.

Wait a minute. You've never have more than one jump ball a game. After you toss an extra period ball, come back and post again on jump balls.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Wait a minute. You've never have more than one jump ball a game. After you toss an extra period ball, come back and post again.

Wait a minute yourself. Is this some kind of a trick to keep me from ever posting again?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Wait a minute yourself. Is this some kind of a trick to keep me from ever posting again?

Sorry. I fixed it.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree. I believe that it's tradition that's keeping the NFHS, and NCAA, from taking the next step and eliminating the jump ball completely.

Wait a minute. You've never have more than one jump ball a game. After you toss an extra period ball, come back and post again on jump balls.

Ya... a step backwards!

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

I, for one, would be disappointed if the jump ball was removed from the game. It's a basketball tradition. Over the history of the game, the jump ball has played an integral part. For much of this time, there was a jump after every made basket. No other game has had jump balls. Let them start with a coin toss if they want. Changing this would be like having a coin toss to determine who bats first in a baseball game instead of continuing having the visiting team bat first. There's something to be said for tradition.

The ball is tipped
and there you are
you're running for your life
you're a shooting star
And all the years
no one knows
just how hard you worked
but now it shows...