The "Flop" on an Upswing?
 

Seems to me that more and more coaches in our area are teaching their defenders to set themselves up for taking the charge in the lane. As lead especially, it's easy to see it coming as I observe the defender, anticipating the crash, set him/herself up legally to bear the brunt of the impact in the lane. Happens so often that it seems to be in slow motion as the scenerio sets itself up.
With that, I'm also seeing an upswing in the number of times per game the defender does the "flop," falling to the floor without actually receiving any contact from the opponent on the drive. I had two boys' sub-level games last Thursday during which it happened no less than four times in the frosh game and three times in the jv game.
As I see it, and as I consider the rules, good sense, and proper game management, there are a variety of possibilities:
A. Do a "no call", realizing that the faker put himself at a disadvantage by putting himself on the floor while the shooter proceeded to the basket unimpeded, and just let the game proceed (and just bear the verbal wrath of the fans on both ends who might not understand "advantage/disadvantage")
B. Halt the illegal practice early by calling an unsporting technical foul for "faking being fouled" (10-3-6-f)
C. Call a block, and when the faker protests, tell him, "I could have either given you a foul for a block or a technical for faking being fouled, which do you want me to call next time?"
D. Make it a POI in the pre-game captains' conference
E. Mention it to both coaches prior to the game
F. After the first "flop", verbally warn both teams, when practical, not to do that again
G. Warn the coaches somehow during the course of the game that "faking being fouled" merits a penalty, and call a T the next one you see one
H. Other???
Do you sense an upswing in "the flop"?
If so, what, if anything, is your good-sense reaction to it?

I wouldn't mention it to anybody....if he flops, he may not be faking, just anticipating...and it is pretty hard to decipher his mind.....just let him hit the floor and go on with the game....he looks pretty sheepish, laying down like that...

If you have contact, then call the charge or block, depending on the situation....IMO

That is always a touchy one.

The player did put himself at a disadvantage, but it would also be a disadvantage to another player that turned his ankle landing on him.

First time - no call and let him know he isn't getting an academy award and faking being fouled is a technical foul. Thereafter - hit the whistle.

From my little corner of the world, I don't think it's on the upswing and I don't see coaches "teaching it." I like "refereeing the defense" and awarding the call if it is earned and deserved.

I had a 12 yr old REC player this weekend who thought he was Shane Battier. He tried jumping in front of every offensive player he could to draw the charge. Unfortunately, it never seemed to be in my area and my partner always called the block.....coach said "knock it off, they're not going to call it." Tough way to earn a living getting run over all the time......

In my area, nobody calls a T for a flop. Not an option.

A veteran gave me a great piece of advice when I pass on a foul in this situation. He told me, after the play's over and the defender's on the floor looking pitiful, look right at him and wave for him to get up (open palm facing up, arm moving low to high).

This gesture lets everyone know that you saw the play, chose not to call a foul, and so you didn't "miss" a call. In my experience, this works pretty well, especially in lower level games where coaches assume that any time a player ends up on the floor without a whistle, an official missed the call.

I've seen about 4-5 flops already this year. I should have called one of them, too. Oh well.

A friend of mine and I have both experienced what we both believe are flops this season on plays where the player holding the ball to one side brings it across their body to the other. The defender acts like he's blown up, essentially looking like he is taking one to the chops. When I got the film, the velocity of the ball swing didnt match up with the action of the player allegedly getting hit but you really couldnt tell conclusively. In live action we both swore this was a whiff / flop.

I sure hope this isnt being taught because if you are stacked on this play, you are either going to be duped into a player control or you are going to see the spacing but wont be supported by the film.

Time to break out the red cards...
 

Serious reply...
 

This may work in your area, but my upbringing completely frowns on this ideal. Same with the "blocked shot" signal. We don't need gestures to explain our calls or non calls. At some point these gestures will get you in trouble.

Great link. Perfect examples of why I hate that @#$%ing game.

http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...tml#post559967 :eek:

All this talk about getting you "in trouble." With whom, exactly?

I think these are your two best options. If the defender goes to the floor and the shooter is unaffected, then a no-call is appropriate. If the defender goes to the floor and the shooter's landing is affected, block.

I posted about this earlier this season, but I actually saw a college team practice flopping during their pre-game warm-up routine. Unbelievable. http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...tml#post553763

[QUOTE=mbyron;560567]In my area, nobody calls a T for a flop. Not an option.

In my area no one calls traveling. So I don't either. If we choose to enforce some rules and not others we are BAD officials!

A T is the same as any other call. Enforce it that way.

Otherwise join the fans in the stands.

I've called this T exactly one time; in a 5th grade YMCA game. I warned the kid the first time; and warned his clueless coach.
Second time, kid flopped as the ball handler got to about 6 feet away; easy call.
Most of the time, you don't know if it's "anticipation" (perfectly legal) or "faking being fouled" (a technical.)

I have found at the high school level, coaches know why you passed on it if you no-call it. Invariably, I hear the coach yell, "Don't bail on that and you'll get the call."

If a coach asks, simply say "he fell too soon."

[QUOTE=Man In Blue;560635]When it's you against the world, back the world.

Going back to the original post, I would certainly not mention this in either the pregame or to the coaches prior to the game. When you do that, the first time there is a play remotely similar to what you described, the coach is going to be on your butt telling you you should have made the call because it was talked about in the pregame.

Btw, I'm also the same way about mentioning anything about how we are going to call the game on a given night. I think taking about this causes more trouble than it diffuses.

I've had a couple of partners mention during the pregame that we'd be watching for carrying. Neither of them called a single carry, the only carry called in my games was in a different game with a partner who never mentioned it.

I hate telling the players things like this: "we're looking for palming/carrying/traveling/hand checking" for the very reason you note; you're setting yourself up.

Simple...you and your crew.

You give the "clean block signal". And your partner comes in with a foul.

Your partner gives the "get up signal" And you come in with a foul.

That's the "trouble" I speak of...

Exactly, last week I had a coach ask me in pre-game "how are you calling the hand-checks tonight"?

I said by the rules & consistently sir.

Hold out your hands and do the mechanic, and say "this way."

I don't worry about these things, to be honest. I see clean block, partner sees a foul. Coach asks me, I say "He saw something I didn't."

That said, I don't use these signals. Seems like wasted energy to me. But I don't really worry about getting "in trouble."

My pregame with the coaches:

"Hi Bill, good to see you again. Are your players properly and legally attired? Good luck."

(They get confused because, apparently, not every coach is named Bill.)

Wash, rinse, repeat.

My captain meeting is just about as short.

The baseball version is:

"What's your strike zone?"

"If I grunt and stick my arm out, it's a strike."

I mention the box (CHSAA wants us to) and timeouts.
"Please make sure you're in your coaching box, and please let us know which timeout you want."

To the players, "If you see a teammate start to lose his head, take care of it for me so I don't have to."

I don't tell them about the lines we're playing, or the hand checks I'm looking for, or the carrying. It's not baseball, they don't need a ground rules briefing.

the best thing is to no call here unless the player who flopped has any contact with the shooter before the player returns to the floor or the act of shooting has ended - if there is contact call the block and move on.

The get up and play on signal is useful once you have determined there is no whistle on the play.

Next oportunity let that specific player know if they take the contact you will give them the call.

I agree to a point. A player is allowed to move backwards to avoid contact, so if the contact is such that the 'flop' only delayed the inevitable; go ahead and call the PC.

I disagree; you're boxing yourself into a corner for future plays that game. If he asks, just tell him what he did wrong; don't make any promises or commitments for future plays.

I am refering to the player flopping to the floor before any contact - your point is well taken.

noted.

[QUOTE=RichMSN;560643]I think the flop is a place the rules committee should look at the severity of the penalty. Just like they did making it a violation to leave the playing court. They HAD to make the change because officials didn't have the testicular fortitude to enforce the penalty.

Too bad that we as officials decide to enforce our rules rather than the Fed rule book.

Too bad the Fed's basic MO is to take fairly minor infractions, and assign them such disproportionately severe penalties that nobody with any amount of perspective is willing to call it. If we forced the Fed to change the penalty for leaving the floor through our collective unwillingness to enforce their rule...

GOOD FOR US!!!

BTW, how many T's did you call for leaving the floor during those dark days, Man In Blue? I called exactly one. It took only once to understand that a six point swing was an unacceptably severe penalty to apply for a violation no more egregious than a throw-in violation or traveling.

It is not your job to decide the egregiousness of anything. It is your job to enforce the rules; this is no different than officials ignoring bench decorum POEs or refusing to enforce uniform rules.

Do you work football in the SEC? Yep, the crew called the wrong foul which resulted in a smaller penalty...it seems to have been done intentionally, not just a rule misapplication.

YouTube - Sideline Interference

I believe this is accepted practice in football.

That said, why don't you answer BITS' question. How many did you call when it was a technical. The same problem applied to what is now the excessive swinging of the elbows violation. It was rarely, if ever, called when it was a technical.

Do you call a T on every flop you see?

It was one of those calls that (if done repeatedly) could end an officiating career due to the severity of the penalty.

:eek: At one state tournament I was working, we had our referee meeting on the night before the first day of games. The official's supervisor specifically mentioned that an official had given the "get up" signal the previous year and that he had better not ever see it again. For what it's worth.

Oh, so THAT's where all the Duke players went- to Europe to play soccer where they love the master thespians! At least Battie was good at it...

God, I hate flopping. Just a personal disgust...

Z

It's our job to work within the parameters set by the officiating community we work in.

She Was The Best Flopper On The Team ...
 

Hey, my daughter got a college scholarship doing Academy Award winning performances like these. Worked in high school soccer, didn't work as well in college soccer, officials allowed rougher play, but she still got a lot of calls her way.

Snaq's is a fair question. How many T's did you call for leaving the floor? How many did you call for excessively swinging elbows? Did you ever pass on a single violation of either of these rules? If so, how do you explain your hypocritical behavior?

Crickets? That's the best you can do?

the flop video is hilarious....I would have to change sports.....absolutely hilarious.....