More handshake idiocy

[Jburt]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I don't think you have a choice in the Bay State. I'm sure Scrapper1 will confirm, or not confirm this aspect for us.

This is correct. The score is confirmed before the PGHS and we as officials do not have any jurisdiction over the PGHS. Its up to the site admin and coaches. My understanding is that fighting will be penalized by the state. The score confirmation has also been an issue with our insurance policy which apparently doesn't include the PGHS since the score has been confirmed.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Jburt

The score is confirmed before the PGHS and we as officials do not have any jurisdiction over the PGHS. Its up to the site admin and coaches. My understanding is that fighting will be penalized by the state.

That makes no sense. If you don't have any jurisdiction to deal with misbehavior, then why do they want you there?

I know that it is an MIAA thing, but the NFHS books directly contradict this policy.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That makes no sense. If you don't have any jurisdiction to deal with misbehavior, then why do they want you there?

To participate in the warm glow of good sportsmanship. We are literally part of the celebration; no longer officiating, but joining with the rest of the participants to express our mutual respect and admiration for the work the others have done that night. Hold on, I'm tearing up. . .

I know that it is an MIAA thing, but the NFHS books directly contradict this policy.

Sadly, this policy comes directly from Mary Struckoff who issued this ruling at the request of the MIAA.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

To participate in the warm glow of good sportsmanship. We are literally part of the celebration; no longer officiating, but joining with the rest of the participants to express our mutual respect and admiration for the work the others have done that night. Hold on, I'm tearing up. . .

See my post immediately above this one for my thoughts on that point.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Sadly, this policy comes directly from Mary Struckoff who issued this ruling at the request of the MIAA.

Huh? Are you saying that Mary drafted the MIAA policy or that she had the NFHS issue something regarding the jurisdiction of NFHS officials over postgame handshakes?

I'm confused here.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

she had the NFHS issue something regarding the jurisdiction of NFHS officials over postgame handshakes?

Ms. Struckoff issued the official ruling that states the game is over when the officials verify the score, which is done by visually checking with the scorer or signing the book. Once that visual check is done, no changes to the score may be made.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

Massachusetts has its own rules for several things that fall outside of the NFHS. It uses the shot clock. Until last year, games were played in halves, not quarters. It has given teams waivers from the "home team must wear white" rule.

It received a specific ruling from the NFHS and added a rule as follows:

NF Basketball Rule 2, Section 5, Article 7 has been adopted, “When the referee either signs the scorebook following the game, or when a non-verbal confirmation is exchanged between the referee and the official scorer, the score is then final and considered approved.”

The sanction for fighting (as well as spitting at someone or punching or kicking an opponent) is a two-game suspension. As I understand the MIAA rule, this does not require any "hearing" after the fact. As an official, if I observe this conduct while I have jurisdiction under MIAA rules (which includes post-game activity), I can penalize it.

Further, a student or coach who physically assaults an official is banned from all sports for one year.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Ms. Struckoff issued the official ruling that states the game is over when the officials verify the score, which is done by visually checking with the scorer or signing the book. Once that visual check is done, no changes to the score may be made.

So she issued a ruling ONLY for the state of MA? I find that odd because MA does not have a seat on the NFHS committee or rules submission rights due to its employment of the shot clock. What is the state office trying to gain by having someone from the NFHS provide them with a rule? I can't understand why they didn't just write and publish it on their own.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That makes no sense. If you don't have any jurisdiction to deal with misbehavior, then why do they want you there?

I know that it is an MIAA thing, but the NFHS books directly contradict this policy.

Officials do have authority after the score is approved, but only under MIAA rules. Any punishment would not affect the final score.

MIAA Sportsmanship Rule 49.8 states- “Fighting and unsportsmanlike conduct penalties will be within the authority of the official at all times at the contest site. The official’s authority extends to pre and post game oversight.” Implementation of this rule could have future consequences on the offender, but does not affect the final score.

From the MIAA rationale:

The MIAA has a mission “to promote a culture of fairness, respect, responsibility, and civility in sports and to foster initiatives which encourage positive attitudes and behaviors in athletes, coaches, officials, parents, and spectators of all ages in Massachusetts.”

This strategy is an opportunity to utilize the partnership of coach and official as teachers for the expected and programmed outcome of respect for opponent. It adds to providing a positive environment, which has a modeling impact on fans.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

Officials do have authority after the score is approved, but only under MIAA rules. Any punishment would not affect the final score.

MIAA Sportsmanship Rule 49.8 states- “Fighting and unsportsmanlike conduct penalties will be within the authority of the official at all times at the contest site. The official’s authority extends to pre and post game oversight.” Implementation of this rule could have future consequences on the offender, but does not affect the final score.

From the MIAA rationale:

The MIAA has a mission “to promote a culture of fairness, respect, responsibility, and civility in sports and to foster initiatives which encourage positive attitudes and behaviors in athletes, coaches, officials, parents, and spectators of all ages in Massachusetts.”

This strategy is an opportunity to utilize the partnership of coach and official as teachers for the expected and programmed outcome of respect for opponent. It adds to providing a positive environment, which has a modeling impact on fans.

So the MIAA has, in fact, altered the NFHS rule on this, to which I stated it was contradictory. The official can write some report and the offenders can be sanctioned at a future time, but nothing can be done which will impact that particular game. That is taking away much of the bite from power granted to the officials under NFHS rules. I don't like it.

In other words, they have partially defanged the watch dog, but expect it to still be just as effective.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

So the MIAA has, in fact, altered the NFHS rule on this, to which I stated it was contradictory. The official can write some report and the offenders can be sanctioned at a future time, but nothing can be done which will impact that particular game. That is taking away much of the bite from power granted to the officials under NFHS rules. I don't like it.

In other words, they have partially defanged the watch dog, but expect it to still be just as effective.

Massachusetts has its own rules for several things that fall outside of the NFHS. It uses the shot clock. Until last year, games were played in halves, not quarters. It has given teams waivers from the "home team must wear white" rule.

It received a specific ruling from the NFHS and added a rule as follows:

NF Basketball Rule 2, Section 5, Article 7 has been adopted, “When the referee either signs the scorebook following the game, or when a non-verbal confirmation is exchanged between the referee and the official scorer, the score is then final and considered approved.”

The sanction for fighting (as well as spitting at someone or punching or kicking an opponent) is a two-game suspension. As I understand the MIAA rule, this does not require any "hearing" after the fact. As an official, if I observe this conduct while I have jurisdiction under MIAA rules (which includes post-game activity), I can penalize it.

Further, a student or coach who physically assaults an official is banned from all sports for one year.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

The sanction for fighting (as well as spitting at someone or punching or kicking an opponent) is a two-game suspension. As I understand the MIAA rule, this does not require any "hearing" after the fact. As an official, if I observe this conduct while I have jurisdiction under MIAA rules (which includes post-game activity), I can penalize it.

Further, a student or coach who physically assaults an official is banned from all sports for one year.

Uhm, so what's the penalty for verbally assaulting a referee during this warm and fuzzy Hallmark moment?

You know, B26 comes up to the official, and while shaking his hand, says, "You're the worst F-ing ref I've seen in my life and your B!%@# mother should be ashamed of you."

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Uhm, so what's the penalty for verbally assaulting a referee during this warm and fuzzy Hallmark moment?

You know, B26 comes up to the official, and while shaking his hand, says, "You're the worst F-ing ref I've seen in my life and your B!%@# mother should be ashamed of you."

Those just may be valid statements especially if the team member made it through all 4 quarters without a T being assessed

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Uhm, so what's the penalty for verbally assaulting a referee during this warm and fuzzy Hallmark moment?

You know, B26 comes up to the official, and while shaking his hand, says, "You're the worst F-ing ref I've seen in my life and your B!%@# mother should be ashamed of you."

That is covered too. I did not want to include all the sanctions and remedies, but the MIAA Rule Book has almost three pages on "sportsmanship."

This is Rule 49.9:

Some of the reasons that an official may disqualify a student or coach from a contest that would lead to a game disqualification are:
1. Fighting
2. Flagrant unsportsmanlike conduct which is defined but not limited to violent action toward a player, official, or spectator, the use of foul or abusive language, taunting, trash talk, and the like.

Having worked with this "handshake" rule for two seasons, I don't have the concerns that others here raise. In those rare games where I do not feel safe, I do not have to stay for the handshake. If there is no "warning" of a problem and one develops, I have the site manager at my side to deal with fans and enough authority under under MIAA rules to deal with problems from players or coaches.