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-   -   After the coach is gone... (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/50454-after-coach-gone.html)

referee99 Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:09am

After the coach is gone...
 
In regards to previous post about pre-game dunking.

3 dunks in warmups - 2 by A12 and 1 by A55.

Two player technical fouls on A12 who is now disqualified.
A player technical foul on A55.

Coach is disqualified due to 3 indirects.

Team B starts game with 6 free throws and the ball at the division line opposite table. Arrow set to Team A

All good.

Assistant Coach A takes over the helm for departed Coach A.

My questions are these:
Is Asst. Coach A now the 'head coach' for rules purposes?
Does Asst. Coach A have coaching box privileges?

What do you do if nervous, potentially unaware Asst. Coach A sends (disqualified) A12 to report to the table later in the game?

Indianaref Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:14am

Is Asst. Coach A now the 'head coach' for rules purposes? Not sure
Does Asst. Coach A have coaching box privileges? NO

What do you do if nervous, potentially unaware Asst. Coach A sends (disqualified) A12 to report to the table later in the game? Send A12 back to the bench 10.5.3

bob jenkins Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by referee99 (Post 560049)
Two personal technical fouls on A12 who is now disqualified.
A personal technical foul on A55.

What's a "personal technical foul?"

Quote:

My questions are these:
Is Asst. Coach A now the 'head coach' for rules purposes?
Does Asst. Coach A have coaching box privileges?

What do you do if nervous, potentially unaware Asst. Coach A sends (disqualified) A12 to report to the table later in the game?
Yes.

No.

If you can get A12 back to the bench, do so. If s/he enters the game, then it's a dircet T on the asst. coach.

referee99 Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:22am

10.5.3
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Indianaref (Post 560050)
Is Asst. Coach A now the 'head coach' for rules purposes? Not sure
Does Asst. Coach A have coaching box privileges? NO

What do you do if nervous, potentially unaware Asst. Coach A sends (disqualified) A12 to report to the table later in the game? Send A12 back to the bench 10.5.3

10.5.3 refers to the Head Coach. Our Asst. Coach is not the head coach, right?
So, by rule there can be no penalty here, even if player A12 makes it onto the floor, due to lack of awareness of his disqualified status.

Only option is to send player back to the bench.

Also, since there is no Head Coach, none of the actions described in 10.5.1 can be undertaken by our Asst. Coach? Specifically, 10.5.1(c) The head coach may stand and/or leave the coaching box to confer with personnel at the scorer's table to requst a time-out as in 5-8-4.

5-8-4 Time out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official: Responds to the scorer's signal to grant a coach's request that a correctable error, as in 2-10, or a timeing, scoring or alternating-possession mistake be prevented or rectified. The appeal to the official shall be presented at the scorer's table where a coach of each team may be present.

referee99 Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:28am

Fixed. Clarified.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 560058)
What's a "personal technical foul?"

Due to the miracle of modern technology, that mistake never happened. "Player Technical Foul

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 560058)
Yes.

No.

If you can get A12 back to the bench, do so. If s/he enters the game, then it's a direct T on the asst. coach.

This makes a lot more sense. Asst. Coach is now Head Coach with seat belt. In the OP would you talk to Asst. and inform him of seat belt and his status?

bob jenkins Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by referee99 (Post 560065)
Due to the miracle of modern technology, that mistake never happened. "Player Technical Foul



This makes a lot more sense. Asst. Coach is now Head Coach with seat belt. In the OP would you talk to Asst. and inform him of seat belt and his status?

Probably.

deecee Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:43pm

i hope this didnt happen....

Adam Sat Dec 20, 2008 01:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by referee99 (Post 560062)
10.5.3 refers to the Head Coach. Our Asst. Coach is not the head coach, right?
So, by rule there can be no penalty here, even if player A12 makes it onto the floor, due to lack of awareness of his disqualified status.

Only option is to send player back to the bench.

Also, since there is no Head Coach, none of the actions described in 10.5.1 can be undertaken by our Asst. Coach? Specifically, 10.5.1(c) The head coach may stand and/or leave the coaching box to confer with personnel at the scorer's table to requst a time-out as in 5-8-4.

I disagree. There are too many HC responsibilities to let the game continue without someone to do it.
1. Requesting timeouts from the bench. By your reasoning, it can't be done all game after the OP sitch.
2. Responsibility for the behavior of bench pesonnel. No one to charge an indirect T to when B24 pops off at the end of the bench.
3. Correctible errors. Unless you claim HC's disqualification precludes the team from correcting errors. Personally, I highly doubt this is the Fed's intent.

Juulie Downs Sat Dec 20, 2008 03:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 560093)
I disagree. There are too many HC responsibilities to let the game continue without someone to do it.
1. Requesting timeouts from the bench. By your reasoning, it can't be done all game after the OP sitch.
2. Responsibility for the behavior of bench pesonnel. No one to charge an indirect T to when B24 pops off at the end of the bench.
3. Correctible errors. Unless you claim HC's disqualification precludes the team from correcting errors. Personally, I highly doubt this is the Fed's intent.

Good points, although I don't see a problem with #1...

BillyMac Sat Dec 20, 2008 07:34pm

Assistant/Head Coach ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 560058)
No. (Coaching Box)

I agree, but would like a citaiton please.

Camron Rust Sat Dec 20, 2008 08:05pm

There is always a person acting as coach. Anyone else is just bench personnel. When the acting head coach is required to leave the game (DQ'd, injury, sickness, etc.), someone else becomes head coach. The current/acting head coach has all rights and restrictions of the position. Any restrictions imposed (coaching box/seat belt) apply to the position of head coach, not to the person acting as head coach....and, thus, apply to anyone who assumes the head coaching duties.

Ch1town Sat Dec 20, 2008 08:06pm

I cant find anything, but you would think the intent would only allow for 1 coaching box per team, per game. The HC forfeited the assistants right to stand. What if the assistant gets run too? The trainer now acting as HC gets to stand?
Yeah, I could sell that :D

mutantducky Sat Dec 20, 2008 08:14pm

question on hanging on the rim during warmups- I assume same as dunking? Guy not trying to dunk just jumping up and hanging on the rim. T?

bob jenkins Sat Dec 20, 2008 09:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mutantducky (Post 560195)
question on hanging on the rim during warmups- I assume same as dunking? Guy not trying to dunk just jumping up and hanging on the rim. T?

Of course. Same rule in the book, iirc.

Nevadaref Sun Dec 21, 2008 06:19pm

Billy, you really have to start checking the past Interps archive!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 560183)
Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by bob jenkins http://forum.officiating.com/images/...s/viewpost.gif
No. (Coaching Box)

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
I agree, but would like a citaiton please.

You already have it. You just aren't looking in the right place. ;)

2001-02 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations

SITUATION 9: At the end of their pre-game warm-up, players A1, A4, A5, A9 each dunk the ball and subsequently leave the floor and go to their dressing room. RULING: A technical foul is assessed to each player. The game starts with eight (8) free throws (2 for each of the technical fouls) and the ball is awarded to B at the division line opposite the table. Four team fouls toward the bonus are assessed to A. The head coach of A is assessed an indirect technical foul for each offense (4) and is subsequently ejected from the contest. Any coach assuming the responsibilities of the head coach for the game would not have the use of the coaching box. (10-3-5; 10-5 Pen)

BillyMac Sun Dec 21, 2008 08:02pm

And I haven't finished my Christmas shopping yet ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 560418)
You really have to start checking the past Interps archive!

Yeah. Sure. The interpretation is seven years old. I haven't even had time to go over my corrected IAABO Refresher Exam yet (not looking forward to it), or to look over my notes from a three-person clinic (our local board may be using it for some games this season), and you want me to look back at interpretations from seven years ago? That sounds like good summer reading. Unlike you, I don't have a part of my brain that's only for past interpretations.

P.S. I hope the moderators give us some advance notice before they delete the sticky thread on past interpretations. I haven't saved these to a flash drive yet.


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