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-   -   Quick Q...5 Players? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/50332-quick-q-5-players.html)

Luv4Asian8 Sun Dec 14, 2008 02:47am
Quick Q...5 Players?
 
Hey All,

Been a while. Happy Holidays!

Quick question. State sancitoned girls varsity game. Team A has only 5 players. Team A coach chooses to pull A1 off the court for their own displinary action (not DQ or ejection). So, Team A coach wanted to play only 4 of her players.

Understanding that a team can play with only 1 if they have the ability to win, the question for this situation: Is there a requirement in the NFHS rules to play all 5 eligible players? If so, please help with citation/caseplay.

Thanks in advance,
VS

just another ref Sun Dec 14, 2008 02:52am
3.1.1 addresses this situation.

Team must have five players participating as long as it has that number available.

mick Sun Dec 14, 2008 08:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luv4Asian8 (Post 557988)
Hey All,

Been a while. Happy Holidays!

Quick question. State sancitoned girls varsity game. Team A has only 5 players. Team A coach chooses to pull A1 off the court for their own displinary action (not DQ or ejection). So, Team A coach wanted to play only 4 of her players.

Understanding that a team can play with only 1 if they have the ability to win, the question for this situation: Is there a requirement in the NFHS rules to play all 5 eligible players? If so, please help with citation/caseplay.

Thanks in advance,
VS
In an JV Boys game, I have, in fact, allowed a team to play with 4 players and to allow the disciplined player to sit on the bench. I discussed the situation with the opposing coach and with partner, got approval by all and played on.
In my game, the player was being disciplined for escalating aggressiveness while on the floor.

JugglingReferee Sun Dec 14, 2008 08:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mick (Post 557999)
In an JV Boys game, I have, in fact, allowed a team to play with 4 players and to allow the disciplined player to sit on the bench. I discussed the situation with the opposing coach and with partner, got approval by all and played on.
In my game, the player was being disciplined for escalating aggressiveness while on the floor.
I've done this as well; it was around 6-7 years ago, at a BV game.. Same situation: team only had 5 players; this one player was way OOC. There was about 17 seconds left in the half. My P and I got together and permitted the coach to play with 4 for the remaining of the half. IIRC, we did not consult the other coach, but rather I had my P (she was the R) tell him what we were going to do.

bob jenkins Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 557989)
3.1.1 addresses this situation.

Team must have five players participating as long as it has that number available.

Agreed. but "available" isn't defined.

derwil Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 557989)
Team must have five players participating as long as it has that number available.
And if coach says the one player isn't available?? Possible for coach to suspend the player for a quarter?

eyezen Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:38am
This isn't Hoosiers. :rolleyes:

Adam Sun Dec 14, 2008 02:12pm
I'm leaning towards the theory of "If the coach says he isn't available, he isn't available."

BillyMac Sun Dec 14, 2008 02:27pm
I Don't Even Play A Lawyer On Television ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 558038)
I'm leaning towards the theory of "If the coach says he isn't available, he isn't available."
Good theory. Nowadays, anybody can sue anybody for just about any reason, and even if you're in the right, you still have to hire a lawyer.

Coach: "He's unavailable".
Official: "You need five out here".
Several seconds later:
Player: "Ouch, I broke my ankle"
Several days later:
County Sheriff: "You've been served".

mbyron Sun Dec 14, 2008 02:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 558044)
Good theory. Nowadays, anybody can sue anybody for just about any reason, and even if you're in the right, you still have to hire a lawyer.

Coach: "He's unavailable".
Official: "You need five out here".
Several seconds later:
Player: "Ouch, I broke my ankle"
Several days later:
County Sheriff: "You've been served".
Although you can be sued for anything, a lawsuit against an official who enforced the rules within reason ain't going anywhere.

Adam Sun Dec 14, 2008 02:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 558045)
Although you can be sued for anything, a lawsuit against an official who enforced the rules within reason ain't going anywhere.
I agree. If the coach doesn't say the player is hurt, you're not responsible.

BillyMac Sun Dec 14, 2008 02:33pm
"The person who defends himself has a fool for a client." ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 558045)
Although you can be sued for anything, a lawsuit against an official who enforced the rules within reason ain't going anywhere.
Correct. But you still have to hire a lawyer. Hopefully the insurance that your local, or state, board carries, includes liability, and attorney fee coverage. In fact, once a parent finds out you have liability coverage, that may increase the chance that you'll get sued, possibly offering a bigger payday.

BillyMac Sun Dec 14, 2008 02:38pm
Thomas Paine Had Common Sense, Not Our Legal System ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 558047)
I agree. If the coach doesn't say the player is hurt, you're not responsible.
Common sense would tell me the same thing. But will the same conclusion be drawn by a parent out for a big payday, a parent's attorney who's out for a big fee, or a school's attorney trying to avoid liability.

Mark Padgett Sun Dec 14, 2008 02:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 558048)
Correct. But you still have to hire a lawyer. Hopefully the insurance that your local, or state, board carries, includes liability, and attorney fee coverage. In fact, once a parent finds out you have liability coverage, that may increase the chance that you'll get sued, possibly offering a bigger payday.
Just tell the parent that if their kid ever wants to get a call again, they'd better just drop it. :cool:

BillyMac Sun Dec 14, 2008 02:40pm
The Snaqwells Theory, Will It Win Him A Nobel Prize ???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 558038)
I'm leaning towards the theory of "If the coach says he isn't available, he isn't available."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 558047)
I agree. If the coach doesn't say the player is hurt, you're not responsible.
Then why your theory?


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