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-   -   Quick Q...5 Players? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/50332-quick-q-5-players.html)

BillyMac Sun Dec 14, 2008 03:28pm
Five Versus Technical Foul ???
 
Similar situation:

For whatever reason, illness, injuries, disqualifications, ejections, very late, in a close game, a team is down to four players, however, there is one player, way down on the end of the bench, in uniform, who's, for whatever reason, name, and number were not in the book at the beginning of the game, unnoticed by the officials, and unknown to the coach, until he sends him to the table to sub in as the fifth player, when the scorekeeper announces to the coaches, and officials, "He's not in the book". The coach, whose team has the ball for the next throwin, considers the advantage of having a fifth player, versus, the disadvantage of adding a name, and number, to the book, earning a technical foul, losing the ball, the opponent getting two free throws, and the ball back. Can the coach refuse to sub him in for the reasons above? If not, can the coach just say, as in previous posts, "He's not available."?

eyezen Sun Dec 14, 2008 03:42pm
Calm down Chicken Little's! No one is going to get sued here, but if the helos are sueing anybody it would be the coach for not letting Johnny play when he is eligible to play, is not hurt, and by rule has to. Not to mention the lost scholarship at a D-1 University.

Adam Sun Dec 14, 2008 04:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 558052)
Then why your theory?
It has nothing to do with legality and lawsuits and everything to do with wanting to stay out of the drama.

refnrev Sun Dec 14, 2008 08:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 558017)
Agreed. but "available" isn't defined.
__________________
And if a coach tells me a player is not available, the player's not available. Could be grades, an attitude adjustment, illness, injury.. I don't need to know. That's a coach, team, school thing.

refnrev Sun Dec 14, 2008 08:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyezen (Post 558059)
Calm down Chicken Little's! No one is going to get sued here, but if the helos are sueing anybody it would be the coach for not letting Johnny play when he is eligible to play, is not hurt, and by rule has to. Not to mention the lost scholarship at a D-1 University.
_________
You left out the multi-million dollar signing bonus when he goes to the NBA.:D

Oz Referee Sun Dec 14, 2008 08:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luv4Asian8 (Post 557988)
.....Understanding that a team can play with only 1 if they have the ability to win, the question for this situation.....
Does NFHS really allow a team to play with one player? In FIBA rules if you have 2 players and one fouls out, gets injured etc, then that team forfeits. With only one player it would be impossible to inbound the ball legally etc....

Oz Referee Sun Dec 14, 2008 08:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 558058)
Similar situation:

For whatever reason, illness, injuries, disqualifications, ejections, very late, in a close game, a team is down to four players, however, there is one player, way down on the end of the bench, in uniform, who's, for whatever reason, name, and number were not in the book at the beginning of the game, unnoticed by the officials, and unknown to the coach, until he sends him to the table to sub in as the fifth player, when the scorekeeper announces to the coaches, and officials, "He's not in the book". The coach, whose team has the ball for the next throwin, considers the advantage of having a fifth player, versus, the disadvantage of adding a name, and number, to the book, earning a technical foul, losing the ball, the opponent getting two free throws, and the ball back. Can the coach refuse to sub him in for the reasons above? If not, can the coach just say, as in previous posts, "He's not available."?
IMHO - If he's not in the book, then he's not a player, therefore the coach can choose not to sub him in (and thus prevent earning a technical foul).

jdw3018 Sun Dec 14, 2008 09:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oz Referee (Post 558135)
Does NFHS really allow a team to play with one player? In FIBA rules if you have 2 players and one fouls out, gets injured etc, then that team forfeits. With only one player it would be impossible to inbound the ball legally etc....
A team may play with one only in the case where the officials believe that team still has an opportunity to win. Obviously that team would have to have a considerable lead and/or have very little time left in the game.

jdw3018 Sun Dec 14, 2008 09:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oz Referee (Post 558136)
IMHO - If he's not in the book, then he's not a player, therefore the coach can choose not to sub him in (and thus prevent earning a technical foul).
Coach can add anyone to the book at any time for the cost of a technical foul.

just another ref Sun Dec 14, 2008 09:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 558058)
there is one player, way down on the end of the bench, in uniform, who's, for whatever reason, name, and number were not in the book at the beginning of the game, unnoticed by the officials, and unknown to the coach, until he sends him to the table to sub in as the fifth player, when the scorekeeper announces to the coaches, and officials, "He's not in the book". The coach, whose team has the ball for the next throwin, considers the advantage of having a fifth player, versus, the disadvantage of adding a name, and number, to the book, earning a technical foul, losing the ball, the opponent getting two free throws, and the ball back. Can the coach refuse to sub him in for the reasons above? If not, can the coach just say, as in previous posts, "He's not available."?
He can sit there on the bench and it's ok with me. "He's our mascot," or whatever. But once he gets to the table, it's too late to say he's not available.

mick Sun Dec 14, 2008 09:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oz Referee (Post 558135)
With only one player it would be impossible to inbound the ball legally etc....
Impossible?
Bounce it off an opponent.

Let an opponent shoot and get a rebound, then dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble..., for three minutes? For 15 seconds?

BillyMac Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:24pm
Not Available, Not Eligible / Available, Eligible ???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oz Referee (Post 558136)
IMHO - If he's not in the book, then he's not a player, therefore the coach can choose not to sub him in (and thus prevent earning a technical foul).
Correct, he's not a player, but:

4-34-4: A team member is a member of bench personnel who is in uniform
and is eligible to become a player

Not to argue, just want to make you go hmmm...

Adam Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 558170)
Correct, he's not a player, but:

4-34-4: A team member is a member of bench personnel who is in uniform
and is eligible to become a player

Not to argue, just want to make you go hmmm...
Coach: "He's not eligible."

Oz Referee Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 558170)
Correct, he's not a player, but:

4-34-4: A team member is a member of bench personnel who is in uniform
and is eligible to become a player

Not to argue, just want to make you go hmmm...
Hmmm......Not in FIBA:

4.1.2 A team member is entitled to play when his name has been entered on the scoresheet before the start of the game and as long as he has neither been disqualified nor committed five (5) fouls. (emphasis added)

Additionally, it is not possible to add a player to the scoresheet by "buying" a technical foul. If the player is not on the sheet when the game starts - they can't play.



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