T or no T! what do you think?

[Adam]

I don't have an objective standard; it's completely subjective.

[Camron Rust]

Depends on how high, how, and why.

Self frustration (follows airball or ball trown-away) will allow a little more tolerance. Who is the action directed at?

How high matters...no specific distance. 4' = nothing 40' = T. Everything else in between is judgement.

Ball ends up in his hands vs. player going to get ball makes a difference.


The whole picture has to be considered to get the right answer. A ball going 10' up dosn't get my attention unless it is directed at me or my partner.

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I don't have an objective standard; it's completely subjective.

Best response. There is no clean way out of this situation. You have to decide what is best for you. A terse scolding of the player if he is a good kid, he will have learned his lesson. A malcontent doing he same thing, probably a T. Either way, it's all up to the individual. Based on the orignal post, sounds like he sleeps OK with it.

[Scooby]

Judgement call. There are lots of good refs on this board and it seems to come down to about 60% T and 40% no T. So I do not see a definitive answer. You have to decide.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

Best response. There is no clean way out of this situation. You have to decide what is best for you. A terse scolding of the player if he is a good kid, he will have learned his lesson. A malcontent doing he same thing, probably a T. Either way, it's all up to the individual. Based on the orignal post, sounds like he sleeps OK with it.

Correct, IMO. I've been known to remind a player that he really doesn't want to make me have to decide whether or not it's a T.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

You have to decide what is best for you.

You have to decide what is best for the game!

If you are worried about what is best for you ... you are in the wrong business.

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

You have to decide what is best for the game!

If you are worried about what is best for you ... you are in the wrong business.

Once again we play word parsing. You are 100% correct. My point was you have to be OK with whatever you do.

"Best for the game" can be argued forever. I generally opt for people skills over excessively rigid rulebook enforcement. Many here would disagree with that. I am genuinely disappointed when I have to give a technical foul for unsportsmanlike conduct, because I always try and use my people skills to prevent it before it is necessary. But I don't judge others. You have to live with and embrace your own style.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

You have to decide what is best for you.

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

You have to decide what is best for the game!

If you are worried about what is best for you ... you are in the wrong business.

Dude, I think you're jumping when it's not necessary. What he's saying is that some officials will take care of this without a T, others will go with the T. There is a certain element of personal comfort level involved here, similar to how you deal with coaches.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Dude, I think you're jumping when it's not necessary. What he's saying is that some officials will take care of this without a T, others will go with the T. There is a certain element of personal comfort level involved here, similar to how you deal with coaches.

No intention of talking down to or jumping on anyone.
I just spent an evening with two partners who were more worried about what was best for them and not the game. That as you can imagine
leads to some things that are not best for the game. So I may have over reacted but the terminology just struck me wrong.

I do not see much leeway for not calling a T here, this player did not have the ball when the play was blown dead, the player then picked up the ball and instead of handing it to an official, slammed the ball to the floor in such a manner that it went 10' in the air?

I can think of a couple of reasons the player might get whacked here, no matter who the player was upset with.

[Adam]

While I agree that the fact the player retrieved the ball prior to "slamming" it leads one to most likely call the T here; I still disagree that 10' is all that high. It doesn't take much effort at all to bounce it that high.

If this player already had the ball when the whistle was blown, then bounced it 10 feet, I don't think the T is so automatic.

Next question: did he catch it?

[mick]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I still disagree that 10' is all that high. It doesn't take much effort at all to bounce it that high.

YU.P.
Merely dropping it from 6' bounces it over 4'1".

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

While I agree that the fact the player retrieved the ball prior to "slamming" it leads one to most likely call the T here; I still disagree that 10' is all that high.

I do not really care about the height either - in this particular case it is the fact that got or retrieved the ball and did not give the ball to an official he slammed it that creates the conduct issue where he is going to get whacked.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Next question: did he catch it?

Interesting point - But I doubt it would change my mind about whacking him because it was such an overt act.

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

No intention of talking down to or jumping on anyone.
I just spent an evening with two partners who were more worried about what was best for them and not the game. That as you can imagine
leads to some things that are not best for the game. So I may have over reacted but the terminology just struck me wrong.

Again, you are 100% correct. You will see a lot of those guys fall by the wayside at some point. Not all, but most. Always fun to work with guys who will try and do anything to help themselves as an official instead of serving the game.