The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   Expert Village Video: Charging (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/50215-expert-village-video-charging.html)

wrwom Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:24pm

Expert Village Video: Charging
 
As a newbie I enjoyed the comments on my post of the YouTube video from Expert Village on tripping. Thought it might be helpful for me and other newbies to look at another and get some comments. I guess these videos are good instructional material as long as you are looking for the errors.

Here's the video

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3K87iTFsDRE&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3K87iTFsDRE&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

The first thing that jumped out at me is the "charge" signal given in the video is actual the player control foul signal, shouldn't this be followed with the two handed push/charge signal?

Secondly the description of what is a block in the video seems to perpetuate the "its a block if the defender is moving" myth. And it seems to me that the example of the block in the video (about 1:05 in) is actually a charge. Looks like the defender had LGP and was moving laterally to maintain it. Comments?

refnrev Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:36pm

1. he has the proper charge signal. I have no idea what signal you are referring to.
2. It was a block.

wrwom Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by refnrev (Post 556194)
1. he has the proper charge signal. I have no idea what signal you are referring to.
2. It was a block.

I am referring to signal 33 (NFHS) which is defined as pushing or charging.

For those of us that are new and still working out the subtleties of block/charge calls it would be helpful to have a little more info that "it was a block"

Back In The Saddle Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:48pm

Is the punch-out proper IAABO mechanics?

Back In The Saddle Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrwom (Post 556197)
I am referring to signal 33 (NFHS) which is defined as pushing or charging.

For those of us that are new and still working out the subtleties of block/charge calls it would be helpful to have a little more info that "it was a block"

The term "charging" is often used to describe this foul, but the player control foul is the proper signal. No additional signal is used.

This is different than a team control foul, where a secondary signal is routinely used. The difference, as far as I can tell, is that in the case of a PC foul, everybody is watching what happened. In a TC foul, most often the foul occurred away from the ball and some additional information is very helpful.

refnrev Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrwom (Post 556197)
I am referring to signal 33 (NFHS) which is defined as pushing or charging.

For those of us that are new and still working out the subtleties of block/charge calls it would be helpful to have a little more info that "it was a block"

_____________
33 - This would not be used for a charge. Just the player control signal.

As for the video, watch the movement and see who initiated the contact, and watch the movement of and body positioning of the defender.

Nevadaref Mon Dec 08, 2008 01:03am

1. This guy is fool. I hope that he officiates nothing but rec league. I agree that he is incorrect about the requirements for block/charge and most likely WAY overpenalizes defensive players.

2. They run three plays.
a. PC

b. PC or nothing; The offensive player initiates the contact and the defender had a legal position. He may move to maintain it.

c. block; The defender is moving towards the dribbler and causes the contact with his thighs and legs.

3. The PC signal (hand behind the head) is all that need be given for any foul by the player in control of the ball. The punch or point in the other direction is not precisely correct. There is a point AFTER the PC signal to indicate the direction of play, but strictly speaking it is not to be given simultaneously with the PC signal.

4. The charging/push signal is used in the pass and crash scenario or when a player runs over another player and the ball is not involved. This can be a team control foul (pass and crash), which would warrant the use of the punch signal or it could even be committed by the defense (running over a screener).

Scrapper1 Mon Dec 08, 2008 09:14am

Three seconds into the video, the guy's very first words. . . "Charging is an offensive violation." Good grief.

1) Charging can be committed by either the offensive player or the defensive player. We usually see it on player control situations, but a defender illegally pushing through a screen is also considered charging.

2) Charging is never a violation. It's a foul, usually personal.

As to his demonstration of mechanics:

The player control signal is to be performed entirely with one arm. It's done in three steps:

1) Fist to stop the clock;
2) Hand behind head;
3) Open palm, pointing direction (done with the same hand).

These videos are really terrible.

Caesar's Ghost Mon Dec 08, 2008 09:26am

Phew - these guys are nuts.

Dont believe everything you see on the internet. You know that saying 'some village is missing there idiot?' I guess we now know where they all went.

JugglingReferee Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:04am

@ 0:36s he says the "...proper mechanic is to stop the whistle..." :cool:

Good Lord.

mbyron Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:20am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caesar's Ghost (Post 556250)
Dont believe everything you see on the internet.

You'd actually come out ahead believing nothing you see on the internet. Including this. ;)

ChrisSportsFan Mon Dec 08, 2008 02:32pm

This must be an old video because he said "the defender moved his feet".

Adam Mon Dec 08, 2008 02:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisSportsFan (Post 556404)
This must be an old video because he said "the defender moved his feet".

I'm not sure that was ever relevant, by rule.

LSams Mon Dec 08, 2008 03:32pm

I'll also disagree with his statement that "this is one of the hardest calls for an official to make."

If you are "refereeing the defense" and you know the position of the defender this is not a difficult call.

Yes it is a bang bang call, but not the most difficult call we make.

just another ref Mon Dec 08, 2008 03:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSams (Post 556426)
I'll also disagree with his statement that "this is one of the hardest calls for an official to make."

If you are "refereeing the defense" and you know the position of the defender this is not a difficult call.

Yes it is a bang bang call, but not the most difficult call we make.

What is the most difficult call we make?


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:23pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1