Phillip

[Brian Watson]

Maybe I am reading too much into it, after all I did not see the play or the game, but I keep reading Phillip's comments about Shaq getting a 3rd foul in the game the other night seem ridiculous to me. I have read him say "when a player is on the way to 50, you can't take him out of the game with fouls". Just read another one where he says ''When he's playing a very good basketball game, a high-quality game, he should have an opportunity to play.'' Mr. Vanessa Williams was even better saying Shaq rarely gets three O-fouls without "really exerting some force".

Those were all coupled with a "we expect a stronger officiating crew next game".

I think we all know there is a star system in the ballet, but this takes it to a new level. Where do the Lakers get off thinking that just because he is having a good game, the refs are not allowed to call a foul on him? I am sure the hardest thing any of the NBA refs have to go through is reffing Shaq. Stern should implement a new rule, each team gets to pick one guy who cannot foul out. Maybe that would make Phillip happy and end the whole block/charge debate on when shaq goes to the hole.

And, I throw a question out to the "old timers" that might have watch Wilt play. Did he not foul out because he didn't foul, or was it because the refs cut him slack like Shaq gets.

[mick]

Originally posted by Brian Watson

And, I throw a question out to the "old timers" that might have watch Wilt play. Did he not foul out because he didn't foul, or was it because the refs cut him slack like Shaq gets.

Brian,
From what I vaguely remember, Wilt was quite light on his feet for 310# and played the game with finesse and touch.
He was much taller than most and did not have to force his way to the hoop. He just went up... end of story.
Likewise, when Bill Russell was aggressively defending most of the onus was on the defender to avoid contact.
Of course, back then, I knew less about basketball, there was no replay and no players' tactics being dissected.
mick

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

Every source I found lists Wilt as 275. Interestingly, I found 300, 301, 303, 310, 315, 320, 330, 335, 339, and 341 listed for Shaq.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Brian Watson
I throw a question out to the "old timers" that might have watch Wilt play. Did he not foul out because he didn't foul, or was it because the refs cut him slack like Shaq gets.

Brian, your post is a little confusing. At first, it sounds like you're saying that Phil and the Lakers expect the refs to cut Shaq some slack; you seem to say that they did not (since he had 3 offensive fouls), and that that's a good thing.

But then you end with the comment I quoted above, which says that Shaq does get slack. So I'm not really sure where you're going with this.

My personal opinion is that a couple of the offensive fouls on Shaq were borderline. Could easily have been no-called and nobody would've said anything. But there was clearly contact, so I'm not going to say too much about the calls. I don't think Shaq gets a whole lot of "slaq" from the officials. He gets hammered by defenses, but b/c he's so big, he is not always put at a disadvantage, so some of it is let go. On offense, his best "move" is obviously to try to back his man down and my guess is that the officials were trying to clamp down on that tactic and not let him push defenders out of the way with his butt.

Just my thoughts,

Chuck

[Brian Watson]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Brian, your post is a little confusing. At first, it sounds like you're saying that Phil and the Lakers expect the refs to cut Shaq some slack; you seem to say that they did not (since he had 3 offensive fouls), and that that's a good thing.

But then you end with the comment I quoted above, which says that Shaq does get slack. So I'm not really sure where you're going with this.

My personal opinion is that a couple of the offensive fouls on Shaq were borderline. Could easily have been no-called and nobody would've said anything. But there was clearly contact, so I'm not going to say too much about the calls. I don't think Shaq gets a whole lot of "slaq" from the officials. He gets hammered by defenses, but b/c he's so big, he is not always put at a disadvantage, so some of it is let go. On offense, his best "move" is obviously to try to back his man down and my guess is that the officials were trying to clamp down on that tactic and not let him push defenders out of the way with his butt.

Just my thoughts,

Chuck

My point is I think the Lakers are way out of line to suggest that the refs should swallow their whistles because he was 13 for 15 or whatever it was when they hit him with the 3rd foul. To suggest he should be let to run loose in the paint and play with no penalty because he is having a great game is ludicrous. We all know the stars get a break, the NBA is a different animal, it is entertainment and the people pay to see them play; but for the head coach to suggest his guy should be given free reign because he might drop 50 is too much. If that were to happen, would WWF style scripted games be too far behind? "OK, tonight Shaq gets 60, no matter what." And I know it is just not him, I see plenty of highlights, both ways, where I think a foul should be called. That segues into my question on Wilt: I think it is obvious that Shaq and the people defending him do get a huge amount of leeway by the officials. Shaq beats on those guys as much as they beat on him. Was it that way back when Wilt played? Did Wilt use is butt to knock people 3 feet out of the way and walk to the hole (I have seen Shaq do this)? Bottom line is Shaq has the potential to, and to a degree has changed the game much like Wilt did (Can Shaq sleep with 30,000 women?). There really is no one who can match up and play him straight up, think the zone was just a coincidence? Was Wilt just smarter, and avoided situations where a foul could go either way and be called against him, or did he get all the breaks on the calls?

Bottom line, I am just tired of hearing the Lakers whine when they lose.

Someone else may now take the soapbox...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Brian Watson
And, I throw a question out to the "old timers" that might have watch Wilt play. Did he not foul out because he didn't foul, or was it because the refs cut him slack like Shaq gets. [/B]

I saw Wilt play,in person,several times-as well as a whole buncha games on TV.Basically,he quit trying to play agressive defense as soon as he got to 4/5 fouls.He'd rather let his man score than pick up that last foul.His rationale was that he could outscore his man,no matter what,and he was too valuable to his team to be on the bench.He also took pride in playing 48 minutes a game,too.The man was just one helluva ballplayer!

[Danvrapp]

Originally posted by A Pennsylvania Coach
Every source I found lists Wilt as 275. Interestingly, I found 300, 301, 303, 310, 315, 320, 330, 335, 339, and 341 listed for Shaq.

That's cause of all them Burger King commercials he's been filming lately. Did you ever think how much weight you'd gain be eatin' that many Whoppers!

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by A Pennsylvania Coach
Every source I found lists Wilt as 275. Interestingly, I found 300, 301, 303, 310, 315, 320, 330, 335, 339, and 341 listed for Shaq.

That's because those figures for Shaq are actually the number of children Wilt Chamberlain fathered during each year, respectively, of his NBA career!

[rockyroad]

Living in Trailblazer (or Jailblazer) land, I would have to say that the Lakers are not the only ones who whine when they lose - it's just that Phil is so much better at it than everyone else...he believes that he is able to manipulate and influence the league and the officials - after all, he has 6 rings (or however many he has now)...wait until Friday's game, and see how those same plays are called...my guess is that Shaq will get away with dropping the shoulder and creaming Divac and Pollard all night and those two will be the ones in foul trouble - the NBA execs don't want any more bad press from someone who commands as much attention as Phil does...

[LarryS]

Originally posted by rockyroad
...wait until Friday's game, and see how those same plays are called...my guess is that Shaq will get away with dropping the shoulder and creaming Divac and Pollard all night and those two will be the ones in foul trouble - the NBA execs don't want any more bad press from someone who commands as much attention as Phil does...

Careful...you're starting to sound like a certain NBA owner who recently spent some time working at a Daity Queen

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

That's because those figures for Shaq are actually the number of children Wilt Chamberlain fathered during each year, respectively, of his NBA career!

Yeah - and that's about half as many as Shawn Kemp.