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-   -   Frustrated Loyola coach Patsos takes a seat in the stands (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/49956-frustrated-loyola-coach-patsos-takes-seat-stands.html)

BillyMac Thu Nov 20, 2008 07:28pm
Do You Get To Carry A Cheat Sheet In Your Pocket ???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbking (Post 551914)
Class A technicals are for players that committ a technical foul for cursing, contact during dead ball or any flagrant. 9 different reasons. Class A technicals are for bench inappropriate behavior. If it is on an assitant, then the coach is charged with the A. The call was correct. However, the coach only gets a Class B charged directly to him if the foul was on bench personel other than him. THis tallies towards ejection.
Class B technical for players are for using tobacco, face guarding, dunking in pregame etc. 15 different reasons...Class B technical for coaches are coaching box violation, bench area, using tobacco, wrong numbers etc. Why was he not charged for leaving the bench is anyones guess. My guess is the offiicial never saw it. They can't say a word sounds more like a NFHS enforcement to me. College coaches do not loose the get up and coach privilege like in HS.THe big differences between A and B:A counts toward team totals and player totals, B does not. They all count towards disqualification, 2a's or 1a and 2b's or 3b's.
I hope that the NFHS doesn't go to this. Directs, and indirects, are enough for me to handle.

Nevadaref Thu Nov 20, 2008 08:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch (Post 551978)
What bothers me about this whole situation is that the official supposedly said the coach's name to the table, not "white coach" or whatever color the uniform was. If I did that in a HS game (and I know so many coaches because they are sometimes football coaches or football officials and I work football as well) I would get downgraded and can kiss the postseason goodbye or forget about getting far into the postseason.
I disagree with your philosophy. The team members have numbers, but the rest of the bench personnel do not. There is nothing wrong with specifying the offender. Had it been an asst coach how would you distinguish which one?

Ref Ump Welsch Fri Nov 21, 2008 02:06pm
What I've been taught is you identify the assistant coach by what he/she is wearing or a description, and then if they want a specific name, then ask the head coach to assist you with that. I've always been told never to address a coach by his/her name, even if I know what their name is.

Ref Ump Welsch Fri Nov 21, 2008 02:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDUB (Post 552055)
"He's the best official we've got, but of the 247 fouls he called this year one of them was reported incorrectly to the scorer. No playoffs for him." :confused:
No, I was not saying an incorrect report, but rather what is considered an inappropriate report. The coaches can evaluate officials in Nebraska, and the state does send out evaluators. I've heard some officials got docked for using the coach's name in reporting the technical to the table instead of "blue head coach" (or whatever color his/her team is).

Mark Padgett Fri Nov 21, 2008 03:42pm
Me: "I've got a technical foul on the blue assistant coach."
Scorer: "Which one?"
Me: "The obnoxious one. Oh wait, that doesn't narrow it down. Sorry."

Rich Fri Nov 21, 2008 04:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch (Post 552275)
What I've been taught is you identify the assistant coach by what he/she is wearing or a description, and then if they want a specific name, then ask the head coach to assist you with that. I've always been told never to address a coach by his/her name, even if I know what their name is.
You'll find there's a split amongst even experienced officials. I never refer to a coach as anything but their first name. My feeling is that if I call them coach, it shows I can't even bother to remember their name. OMM (and does) V.

Nevadaref Fri Nov 21, 2008 08:04pm
Two points which are pertinent to this discussion, which I posted earlier, and for some reason Bob deleted are: calling coaches and players by their names when officiating and physically touching the players during the game.

There are vast differences of opinions on these two points. There are some officials who believe that both of these are fine and help establish a good rapport with the participants and can prevent a great deal of trouble. There are others, mostly the newer breed, who seem overly concerned with political correctness and lawsuits and seem to believe that engaging in either is a criminal act.

I don't see why Bob deleted that part of my previous post, especially since other posters have continued the thread by discussing my first point.

zm1283 Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 552348)
Two points which are pertinent to this discussion, which I posted earlier, and for some reason Bob deleted are: calling coaches and players by their names when officiating and physically touching the players during the game.

There are vast differences of opinions on these two points. There are some officials who believe that both of these are fine and help establish a good rapport with the participants and can prevent a great deal of trouble. There are others, mostly the newer breed, who seem overly concerned with political correctness and lawsuits and seem to believe that engaging in either is a criminal act.

I don't see why Bob deleted that part of my previous post, especially since other posters have continued the thread by discussing my first point.
We've been reminded this year to NEVER touch a player or coach except for shaking hands during the pre-game conference.

BillyMac Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:05am
Chest Bumps, And Fist Bumps ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zm1283 (Post 552399)
We've been reminded this year to NEVER touch a player or coach except for shaking hands during the pre-game conference.
During the 2006-07 season I received my first chest-bump, ever, from one of the captains, at the coaches/captains/officials pregame conference. Didn't really care for it. I'm glad that we just shook hands when I played high school basketball back in 19@#.

Also, during the introductions of starters, many players will give the officials, and the opposing coach a fist bump, instead of a handshake. And, no, it's not the O'Bama terrorist fist bump. By the way, isn't it great to have a fine Irish lad like O'Bama as our next president. I can't wait to see a photo of him. He probably has red hair, and freckles. Can't figure out how his parents came up with his first name. Patrick O'Bama sounds much better.

Back In The Saddle Sat Nov 22, 2008 01:02am
I much prefer the fist bump to a hand shake. I've got a long season ahead of me. I don't need to be shaking 10 of the most unsanitary hands in the gym every night.

Nevadaref Sat Nov 22, 2008 03:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle (Post 552406)
I much prefer the fist bump to a hand shake. I've got a long season ahead of me. I don't need to be shaking 10 of the most unsanitary hands in the gym every night.
I'm sure that the girls' moms are thrilled that you just wrote that. ;)

Nevadaref Sat Nov 22, 2008 04:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zm1283 (Post 552399)
We've been reminded this year to NEVER touch a player or coach except for shaking hands during the pre-game conference.
By whom? Did you ask why? Did they give you a legitimate reason?

I happen to be on the other side of this. Of course, I learned how to officiate from an old D1 guy and a former FIFA soccer referee. Neither one cared for political correctness. Neither cared about how you looked only what you called. They were only concerned that the referee controlled the game and prevented a melee.

BillyMac Sat Nov 22, 2008 09:42am
His Name Is Adrian Monk, I Think His Day Job Is A Private Detective ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle (Post 552406)
I much prefer the fist bump to a hand shake. I've got a long season ahead of me. I don't need to be shaking 10 of the most unsanitary hands in the gym every night.
I once worked with a partner that kept a small squeeze bottle of hand sanitizer in his jacket pocket. After the introduction of starters, during the National Anthem, he would sanitize his hands.

BillyMac Sat Nov 22, 2008 09:55am
Common Sense V. Political Correctness ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 552419)
Did they give you a legitimate reason?
Here's a legitimate reason: Nowadays, anybody, can sue anybody, for any reason, and even if you're in the right, you still have to hire a lawyer to defend yourself.

On the other hand, if a player takes a hard fall, and gets up, and is walking "wobbly", while we're waiting for his beckoned coach, I'm going to put my arm around his, or yes, even her, shoulders, to prevent the player from falling again, thus preventing another, possibly worse, injury. When it comes to player safety, I'll take common sense over political correctness anyday.

Back In The Saddle Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 552418)
I'm sure that the girls' moms are thrilled that you just wrote that. ;)
Yep, those same moms that have spent the last decade and a half reminding their little girls to wash their hands. :D


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