My comment was aimed at what it means to us to determine eligibility. And I'm not arguing against asdf's suggestion, which is the most rational way to handle this that I recall being discussed.

When wrangling over the definition of team member, how do the rules define "eligible to become a player"? They don't. IMO, the only rules-based context we have for judging whether a kid in uniform is eligible to become a player is whether or not he is listed on the roster. If he's listed, he's eligible to become a player. If he's not listed, he's not. But if he's then added to the roster at the cost of a team T, he's now eligible.

The scenarios you propose all involve determinations of eligibility that are external to the rules of the game. We have no part in enforcing those. If external eligibility rules are violated, the enforcement also comes externally.

Supposing that all coaches suddenly realize that it is the case that they can not make a player a team member so they don't get hit with a bench personnel T and an indirect. Then any time a player dunks they don't write his name in the book, add him later and take the team T.

Since the NFHS has said that they want indirects for this action, one of 2 things must be true:
a - officials penalize them as team members despite not being in the book
of
b - officials penalize for adding back into the book and then additionally penalize for the dunking as the team member is added back to the book.

I think b may be a stretch, going off of billymacs administrative T page. Is it too late to penalize this?

Just throwing out a possibility.
I think you have to whack them and enforce before the clock starts, and actually I think the suspended player should get whacked becuase he shouldn't be dressed and warming up - but that is another issue.

I am just seeing serious trouble if this player is added to the book in third quarter you correctly issue the T for that and you go back and add a second T for the dunk before the game.

I'm not convinced you are wrong I can not find anything either way for the moment. I am just seeing lots of trouble.

Definition Of Team Member ???
 

"A team member is a member of bench personnel who is in uniform and is eligible to become a player".

How about this situation to confuse the issue even more?

2005 IAABO Refresher Exam

73) Squad member #45 missed the bus and is not present at the time the squad list and starting lineup must be submitted for team members. During the pregame warm up, the referee counts eleven team members for team A, but while checking the book, team A has twelve team members listed. Referee informs the coach that the squad member who is not present may not be placed in the book, even if he/she will get to the game late. Is the referee correct?

73) Yes: Rule 3, Section 2, Article 1, Rule 4, Section 34, Article 4.

Almost every one in my local board got this question wrong. We disagreed with the answer and citation then, and we still disagree with the answer and citation. If I recall, we got some type of explanation involving the definition of a "team member" involving a squad member being ready and eligible to play.

We discussed this one at length a couple of years ago and came to the conclusion that whomever came up with their interp was a complete freaking idiot.

PS. You posted that just to lure JR out of hiding, didn't you? ;)

How do you know he is not in uniform and is not ready to play, he just isn't their yet????

If we go to the book and there are 15 in the book and only 10 warming up, are we supposed to draw lines through those that are not out there warming up??? Or do we leave them in their so when they come out of the locker room choosing not to come out till game time(whether it be they are late or what), we don't have to add them?

Here's the thread: http://forum.officiating.com/basketb...fore-game.html

Bob's answer seems like a very good one to me: