Clapping/Yelling

[ajs8207]

During A1s shot, B1 yells or claps to try to distract A1. What do you have? Nothing? Technical? This has happened in a few games recently I have done. I have done nothing, but I thought it was wrong. What would you all do if this happened?

[JRutledge]

If you mean a regular shot, I have nothing.

Peace

[icallfouls]

Good point Rut. In case the reference is to shooting FT's:

First one is a warning as I have to determine the intent.

Usually a simple "the next one is a violation" sends the message.

If I think the player really doesn't know the rule, then I'll go to the player and let them know that if I think that they are doing it to distract/disconcert the shooter, then they will be called for a violation if the shooter misses. I'll also let the player know that when the coach wants to know what happened, that the player and I talked about it, they did it a second time, that is the reason the shooter got another try at it.

[Freddy]

Icallfouls - -
What's the rule basis for your determinations? I'm anxious to learn what I've been missing on this situation.

Nevermind . . . I see you just edited your post.

[icallfouls]

Freddy,
First of all, there really is no hard and fast definition for disconcertion, it is up to the officials to make that determination. So if you are looking for some sort of written/verbal definition there isn't one.

More than llikely the intent was to distract the shooter, but the original post did not include some things that I would use to help make that determination. As an example, if B is looking at the shooter and clapping and hollering in the direction of the shooter that is extremely obvious. If the player is bent over, its hard to say for certain that the action was directed at the shooter, so that is a time when I will make sure that player B and I have an understanding of what happens next if it is determined that the intent is to disconcert.

I think that we all know what disconcertion is when we see it, but if there is doubt, I have a way of dealing with it that works.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

Freddy,
First of all, there really is no hard and fast definition for disconcertion, it is up to the officials to make that determination. So if you are looking for some sort of written/verbal definition there isn't one.

More than llikely the intent was to distract the shooter, but the original post did not include some things that I would use to help make that determination. As an example, if B is looking at the shooter and clapping and hollering in the direction of the shooter that is extremely obvious. If the player is bent over, its hard to say for certain that the action was directed at the shooter, so that is a time when I will make sure that player B and I have an understanding of what happens next if it is determined that the intent is to disconcert.

I think that we all know what disconcertion is when we see it, but if there is doubt, I have a way of dealing with it that works.

Hmmm, where in the rule does it say the opponent must deliberately disconcert the free thrower, or that he must intend to do so?

NFHS 9-1-3-c "No opponent shall disconcert the free thrower."
NCAA 9-1-2-f "No opponent shall disconcert (e.g., taunt, bait, gesture or delay) the free-thrower.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Hmmm, where in the rule does it say the opponent must deliberately disconcert the free thrower, or that he must intend to do so?

NFHS 9-1-3-c "No opponent shall disconcert the free thrower."
NCAA 9-1-2-f "No opponent shall disconcert (e.g., taunt, bait, gesture or delay) the free-thrower.

I will agree with you in principle, but I would like the act to be deliberate if I am going to call this a violation. I do not see this too often where a disconcertion is not intentional.

Peace

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Hmmm, where in the rule does it say the opponent must deliberately disconcert the free thrower, or that he must intend to do so?

NFHS 9-1-3-c "No opponent shall disconcert the free thrower."
NCAA 9-1-2-f "No opponent shall disconcert (e.g., taunt, bait, gesture or delay) the free-thrower.

Then you can be the guy that calls the violation every time someone moves their head or adjusts their shirt or tells their teammates to get after it while awaiting a FT because that is what you are implying. It is up to the official to determine what is disconcertion.

What is taunting, baiting or gesturing that you are going to use for your determination?

Without enough information, I gave an option and a way to handle it.

[Mark Padgett]

If you mean a "regular" shot, since there's no contact involved, the only type of foul this could possibly be is a technical. But really, you're going to call a technical for someone shouting at a shooter? Hey - this isn't golf.

[mick]

Originally Posted by ajs8207

During A1s shot, B1 yells or claps to try to distract A1. What do you have? Nothing? Technical? This has happened in a few games recently I have done. I have done nothing, but I thought it was wrong. What would you all do if this happened?

ajs8207,
Nothing illegal. Put it out of your mind.
If you let it get to you, you may start rolling your eyes or shaking your head, and someone may pick up on that.

[jallen]

Originally Posted by ajs8207

During A1s shot, B1 yells or claps to try to distract A1. What do you have? Nothing? Technical? This has happened in a few games recently I have done. I have done nothing, but I thought it was wrong. What would you all do if this happened?

For those refereeing FIBA, it is a warning and then an unsportsmanslike technical foul. This is to be enforced strictly. I have watched officials do it in games already this year and I called one yesterday after giving a warning during a dead ball. FIBA has added many new unsportsmanlike foul situations and we have been instructed to call them.

[Oz Referee]

Originally Posted by ajs8207

During A1s shot, B1 yells or claps to try to distract A1. What do you have? Nothing? Technical? This has happened in a few games recently I have done. I have done nothing, but I thought it was wrong. What would you all do if this happened?

This was a point of emphasis for FIBA referees about 8 years ago (don't have my books handy). We were instructed to stop the game and give a warning to all players on the first occurance and then issue technical fouls for subsequent occurances.

IMHO players that do this are cheating. Even if it is not sepcifically mentioned in the rule book that you use, I believe that is certainly against the spirit of competition.


Edit: woops should have read all the responses before posting, ChristianH beat me to it

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Oz Referee

Should have read all the responses before posting, ChristianH beat me to it.

Been there. Done that. Many times. Perhaps you haven't checked out the Forum in a while, meaning that there are probably quite a few threads, including many multi-post threads, to check out. As you're catching up, you spot a post that you absolutely must respond to right away, and after doing so, continue to read some more recent posts in the same thread, to find out that another member has basically posted the same response as you.

[Oz Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Been there. Done that. Many times. Perhaps you haven't checked out the Forum in a while, meaning that there are probably quite a few threads, including many multi-post threads, to check out. As you're catching up, you spot a post that you absolutely must respond to right away, and after doing so, continue to read some more recent posts in the same thread, to find out that another member has basically posted the same response as you.

Thats me to a T (no, not that sort Padge). After probably 12 months of not looking at the forums, there is a lot of stuff to catch up on

[christianH]

Originally Posted by Oz Referee

We were instructed to stop the game and give a warning to all players on the first occurance and then issue technical fouls for subsequent occurances.

Hi guys,

so that is when I don't know what to do after a succesful shot. Shall I stop the clock before the throw-in at the endline?

And if the shot is not sucessful, unfortunately I will have to give a T straight away, causing a bit of commotion when the players and the coaches will all ask about my mother and relatives