T'able offense?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Yeah, yeah I know this is men's rec league, and this stuff is to be expected but I still need help in knowing if my T was justified last night.

I say yes, and I only had to read this far.

[Back In The Saddle]

One thing you cannot control is somebody else's attitude. If you're calling it consistently, and he won't adjust, well, you can't fix stubborn, paranoid, lazy, no game, or stupid.

Nevertheless, I'm going to ask: Were you and your partner really on the same page in trying to clean this up? Did he call as many fouls as you? Why didn't your partner have a single foul on this guy? From the details you've given, I'd surmise either you were looking for fouls on this guy, knowing his tendencies; or your partner left you twisting in the wind instead of helping you out, either by picking up one or more of the fouls that were there, or by not forcing a switch, or no-switch, when it was obvious you two were having issues.

I agree with trying to stay off his games. There's clearly a history. If there's enough other games to keep you busy, there's no need to be there.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JS 20

It's not meaningless to them.

Agree. And, the game shouldn't be meaningless to you either.

This is part of my pregame conference with my partner, every game:
Every game is the most important game being played anywhere tonight for these kids, fans, and coaches. Let’s make sure we officiate the game keeping that in mind, through effort, and attitude.

Also, good call on the technical foul. He deserved it

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

This is part of my pregame conference with my partner, every game:
Every game is the most important game being played anywhere tonight for these kids, fans, and coaches. Let’s make sure we officiate the game keeping that in mind, through effort, and attitude.

While I understand the sentiment, and the desire to motivate yourself to give your best effort, this "most important game" statement just isn't necessarily true. There are truly recreational leagues. There are leagues of little kids who will forget the game as soon as the horn sounds and move on to the swings at the playground (or the X-Box at home). Even at the high school level, there are games where one team knows going in that it's going to get crushed. They want to play well, but they know the game isn't all that important.

At a lot of venues, the game is more important to the coaches and parents than it ever will be to the kids.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by fiasco

So I whack him. 5 fouls, he's gone. He grabs his stuff, walks right past me and yells "Well, you got what you wanted."

If you give another one here, you won't hear me complain about it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If you give another one here, you won't hear me complain about it.

I was thinking the same thing.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by fiasco

...

So I whack him. 5 fouls, he's gone. He grabs his stuff, walks right past me and yells "Well, you got what you wanted."

...

Originally Posted by just another ref

If you give another one here, you won't hear me complain about it.

In a Adult Men's Rec League where he's already headed out the door? It would have served no purpose. The tech and the disqualification sent the message loud and clear, IMO.

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Nevertheless, I'm going to ask: Were you and your partner really on the same page in trying to clean this up? Did he call as many fouls as you? Why didn't your partner have a single foul on this guy?

This is the first thing I thought of when reading OP. What did your partner have to say? Are other officials refusing to do this jerk's
games as well?

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

This is the first thing I thought of when reading OP. What did your partner have to say? Are other officials refusing to do this jerk's
games as well?

A lot of the other officials are buddy-buddy with all the guys in the league. Go way back, you know? So they put up with a lot more crap than I do, or I get more crap than they do since the players don't know me. Either way, I don't really care how they officiate, and they know how I officiate. They know that I don't put up with players' attitudes. (Later that same night as the OP, I tossed a kid who followed me to the scorer's table as I assessed his first technical foul and then stayed on me as I tried to walk away from him. My partner did nothing.)

To be honest, I wonder if a lot of the guys who ref in this league are in it just for the paycheck. They call what they need to call to "get the job done" but other than that, they don't want to ruffle feathers.

I made a point to switch on every foul in that game, especially after I called two straight fouls on the guy. My partner was calling plenty of fouls himself, just not on this guy. I would not be surprised in the least if this player was intentionally being more aggressive in front of me in order to get 4 fouls so he could mouth off to me and dare me to toss him.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I would not be surprised in the least if this player was intentionally being more aggressive in front of me in order to get 4 fouls so he could mouth off to me and dare me to toss him.

Methinks you're giving him too much intellectual credit, my friend.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I wonder if a lot of the guys who ref in this league are in it just for the paycheck.

Gee, ya think? It's a men's rec league. I know very few officials who do those leagues because they're trying to improve. A few, but very few.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Gee, ya think? It's a men's rec league. I know very few officials who do those leagues because they're trying to improve. A few, but very few.

Well, it IS an opportunity to work on one's "people" skills.

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Well, it IS an opportunity to work on one's "people" skills.

Exactly, if you can manage a mens game with 10-15 knuckleheads participating, it makes managing a HS game with 2-4 knuckleheads much more easy... for me anyway.

There's always something we can improve on, no matter the level of play.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

In a Adult Men's Rec League where he's already headed out the door? It would have served no purpose. The tech and the disqualification sent the message loud and clear, IMO.

The purpose would be to let this guy know that even though he is through for the day, he still needs to know how to act as long as he is in the building.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The purpose would be to let this guy know that even though he is through for the day, he still needs to know how to act as long as he is in the building.

Yep. I'm sure this added bit of teaching will bear much fruit. Unless he's a typical wreck league numbskull. Oh, you're right, that IS redundant.