POI and Referee Magazine case play

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Second, with all due respect, I have been a student of the rules of basketball for 38 years going on 39 years,

I'm glad we have all this mutual respect! But honestly, Mark, your historical perspective is completely irrelevant to this question. 4-4-3 states in plain English exactly where the ball is at any time, including when airborne during a long pass. Nobody -- not the Rules Committee, not me, not Mary -- nobody cares what the rule meant 40 years ago. It is completely, 100% irrelevant.

This is not the first time the Rules Committee has issued and incorrect interpretation.

You've already gone over this ground. And I'll say again -- it's not relevant to the current question. Yes, they've issued dubious interpretations, including one just last year about backcourt violations. What in the world does that possibly have to do with ball location now? Nothing.

I will address a letter to Mary Struckhoff in the early part of next week.

Good luck with that. My guess is that it will be to no avail.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

4-4-3 states in plain English exactly where the ball is at any time, including when airborne during a long pass.

Fwiw, I don't agree that the FED English is "plain" either.

Rule 4-36-2, which is the relative cite, isn't that clear. It took a case play that never made the book to explain it.

Having a POI located where the ball WAS at the time of the whistle instead of where the ball IS at the time of the whistle defies common sense imo. And apparently I'm not the only one that takes that view.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Fwiw, I don't agree that the FED English is "plain" either.

I know. Hence, me being "astounded".

[Adam]

It seems to me that when the FED changed to POI on double fouls, they ran across the problem of needing to define something that hadn't previously been an issue; the physical location of a ball in flight. They'd had to define it's status for BC/FC issues, but defined "location" hadn't come up. Now, with POI, they needed something.

Well, what do you know, the definition of status fits pretty well, and it works as well as anything. They stuck with a rule they had in the book already instead of making some awkward distinction between status and location.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Well, what do you know, the definition of status fits pretty well, and it works as well as anything.

Gee, I think that maybe....just maybe....some officials might just have the capability to actually figure out the closest OOB location to an airborne ball when the whistle blows. And if you do have to guess, don't forget that you're making the exact same kind of guess when you locate the spot of the origin of the pass. Spot location of the throw-in would be just as accurate in both cases anyway. It ain't freaking brain surgery.

Riddle me this....if the ball was passed from just over center and it was almost (but still untouched) to a player on the endline when a double foul occurred, are you locating the subsequent throw-in at center?

As I said, locating a Point of Interruption at a POINT where the ball WASN'T when play was INTERRUPTED makes zero sense to me.

However, it is what it is.

[Adam]

Ah, but some people don't like being left to their common sense, JR. Others just shouldn't be left to their common sense. And some don't have common sense to use. Since everything needs to be defined, here we are....

If it's close enough I can't tell which happened first, I'll assume the player touched the ball before the double foul. If it's far enough that a 10 second call would be warranted if the situation were right, I'd go back to the release point.

That's just me, though.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If it's close enough I can't tell which happened first, I'll assume the player touched the ball before the double foul. If it's far enough that a 10 second call would be warranted if the situation were right, I'd go back to the release point.

That's just me, though.

I'm glad that's just you. I can't figure out how you could get a 10 second call on a ball passed from the front court to another spot in the front court. But that's just me, though.

Try your logic on these:

1) A1 has a throw-in on the endline under their own basket. B1, standing just inbounds guarding the throw-in, tips the ball on the throw-in. The ball goes into A's backcourt, and just before the ball lands and bounces just over the FT line in the lane, a double foul is committed. By rule, the throw-in has to go back to where B1 touched the ball, correct? Throw-in on the endline under A's basket, correct?

2) Exact same play, but the double foul is committed just after the ball bounces just over the FT line in the lane in A's backcourt....now, by rule, you locate the throw-in on the endline under team B's basket on the endline, correct?

Maybe somebody(like Scrappy ShortPants) can explain the logic to me of locating the throw-in at different ends of the court in these almost identical plays.