Just when you have heard it all

[fletch_irwin_m]

I heard this one last nite:

Team A scores.
B1 takes the ball out of bounds and passes to B2 along the baseline out of bounds (position established) B2 has the ball go through his hands, into the concession area bounce off the popcorn machine and on the floor, still out of bounds. B2 picks it up and throws it in to B3 who is immediately fouled for the Bonus. What was the call?

Here is what those officials did. They called the foul and then huddled up do figure out what just happened. They called the ball dead prior to the throw in, because the ball broke the plane of the side out of bounds line. Thus resulting in a dead ball and turn over. Team A was awarded the ball under the basket.

Have at it.

[Marty Rogers]

I never heard of the "sideline violation."
I would not have done anything different than
usual until the 5 second count was up, then B
would lose possession if they didn't inbound it
in time.

There is no "position established" after a
made basket (no "spot"). I think the officials
"blew it" in this case.

[Bart Tyson]

Hold on Marty, i don't think the Thrower-in can go beyond the sideline. However, you are correct the officials blew it b/c a violation is NOT a correctable error.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Marty Rogers
I never heard of the "sideline violation."
I would not have done anything different than
usual until the 5 second count was up, then B
would lose possession if they didn't inbound it
in time.

There is no "position established" after a
made basket (no "spot"). I think the officials
"blew it" in this case.

I think that officials got it right.R7-7-7 says that the throw-in shall be made from anywhere outside the END line.R1-2-1 and the court diagram define the end line.Note that the end line stops at it's intersection with the sideline.Also,see the last sentence of R7-6-1---"the throw-in pass shall not touch a teamate while it is on the out-of-bounds side of the throw-in boundary plane".That's the sideline violation that you have never heard of.I think that backs the call up.

[Mark Dexter]

Fletch, I think we've had this one come up before.

My final answer was that it is a violation, because the whole of the endline is considered the "spot," and you cannot go more than 3' outside of the spot.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
Hold on Marty, i don't think the Thrower-in can go beyond the sideline. However, you are correct the officials blew it b/c a violation is NOT a correctable error.

Good point,Bart.I'd lie my way out of it,though!

[ChuckElias]

Issue a delay of game warning to the popcorn machine, have it recorded in the book and then give the ball back to B on the endline.

Chuck

[Bart Tyson]

Mark D, The Spot throwin rules do not apply to the end line throwin. We did discuss this resently about a throwerin jumping in the air toward the court and breaking the plane with both feet, and before landing on the court releasing the ball for a throwin. According to an article by the xxxMag. who asked the NF and NCAA powers, this is legal.

[fletch_irwin_m]

I am not sure of the rule book reference, but it does seem logical that the person inbounding the ball can't run along the baseline and then up the sideline to inbound the ball. Otherwise, it would be like soccer in a way. (Which we all know is a communist sport,because you can't use your hands)
As to the 5 second count, the official said he was between 1 and 2 when it went careening around the concession area.
The coach had a good line, "I don't know what the call is, but I sure don't want any popcorn now!"

[RecRef]

Ok, my take on it. B1 to B2 both OOB after a made basket is OK as long as both are behind the baseline and not the sideline. The ball becomes dead when it hit the popcorn machine, as it is not part of the court. Part of the court in this context is the same as ropes or gym/court dividers hanging from the rafters.

Now the part I would not call unless it was a hard foul. The foul on B3 is a “T” because it is a dead ball situation.

[zebraman]

I think the only violation here would be if they took more than 5 seconds to get the ball inbounds.

Z

[Bart Tyson]

RecRef, I'm not sure i have a violation for the ball touching an object oob after a fumble. A player can fumble and retrieve the ball. The throwin has to be behind the baseline. Would the popcorn machine, beyond the sideline be any different then the bleachers, or cheer leader behind the baseline?

[Edited by Bart Tyson on Apr 26th, 2002 at 10:22 AM]

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by fletch_irwin_m
I heard this one last nite:

Team A scores.
B1 takes the ball out of bounds and passes to B2 along the baseline out of bounds (position established) B2 has the ball go through his hands, into the concession area bounce off the popcorn machine and on the floor, still out of bounds. B2 picks it up and throws it in to B3 who is immediately fouled for the Bonus. What was the call?

Here is what those officials did. They called the foul and then huddled up do figure out what just happened. They called the ball dead prior to the throw in, because the ball broke the plane of the side out of bounds line. Thus resulting in a dead ball and turn over. Team A was awarded the ball under the basket.

Have at it.

On a spot throw-in, if B fumbles the ball, s/he's allowed to retrieve it, return to the spot and complete the throw-in (while the 5-second count continues).

I'd do the same thing here -- keep the count going. If B2 was behind the end-line and "within" the side-lines, legal throw-in.

Either way, I don't think it's covered, so we get to use the elastic clause.

[devdog69]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
Hold on Marty, i don't think the Thrower-in can go beyond the sideline. However, you are correct the officials blew it b/c a violation is NOT a correctable error.

Hey, Bart. I'm not following the correctable error, thingy-ma-jig. There is no correctable error, because the officials have not done anything yet, rather, the ball has not been put back in play yet. Make sense?

[Bart Tyson]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by devdog69

[i]

Hey, Bart. I'm not following the correctable error, thingy-ma-jig. There is no correctable error, because the officials have not done anything yet, rather, the ball has not been put back in play yet. Make sense?

The throwin was complete, live ball, no whistle. You can't go back and say oh, wait, i want to call a violation. It wasn't a late whistle for a throwin violation, they played on. They called a foul. Then they say lets go back a call a violation. Can't do this, it is not correctable.