Legal pick?

[Tio]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

First, the talking head is an idiot to make the statement that the official did not see the contact.

Second, B2 had acquired (I hope I spelled that word correctly.) her position legally: she gave proper time and distance in relation to the moving A2. Keeping in mind that we are all seeing this play at actual game speed this what I also say. B2's body did not sway from side to side to cause contact with A2. B2 did stick her chest out prior to A2 making contact with her. Keeping mind that a player who is setting a screen can brace themselves against imminent contact, I am going to give the benefit of the doubt to B2 in this play. She did not push out with her hands and arms in an effort to push A2 nor did I think her sticking our her chest was an effort to push A2; it was an effort to brace herself against immenint contact by A2. Therefore, I have this as a legal screen by B2 and there is no foul by A2 because B2 was not displaced. This is pretty much a text book legal screen against a moving opponent.

MTD, Sr.

When you are "bracing" yourself, you don't lean toward the oncoming player, which in my opinion she does (obvious in slow motion). Let's focus on the game management of the play. If you think that a no-call in this situation is good for the game, then by all means I would like to hear what kind of explanation the coach gets. I imagine this crew was in hot water the rest of the night.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Tio

When you are "bracing" yourself, you don't lean toward the oncoming player, which in my opinion she does (obvious in slow motion). Let's focus on the game management of the play. If you think that a no-call in this situation is good for the game, then by all means I would like to hear what kind of explanation the coach gets. I imagine this crew was in hot water the rest of the night.

Look, I haven't seen the play yet (stupid firewalls), but are you saying you'd call a foul just for game management purposes, even if the rules did not call for one?

Let's change this play and assume for a second that B2 had position, had stood there since the end of the 2004 Olympics, and A2 crashed into B2, falling to the floor but did not so much as make B2 flinch. What's your call?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Tio

When you are "bracing" yourself, you don't lean toward the oncoming player, which in my opinion she does (obvious in slow motion). Let's focus on the game management of the play. If you think that a no-call in this situation is good for the game, then by all means I would like to hear what kind of explanation the coach gets. I imagine this crew was in hot water the rest of the night.

The fact that we had to look at the play in slow motion (from two angles BTW) should tell you and everyone something.

And as I said, you are more worried about the result of the play, not whether it was legal or not. I would feel better if you just said it was illegal. Game management really has nothing to do with this play. At the very least it does not on a clip we see of one play.

Peace

[canuckrefguy]

The violence or lack thereof notwithstanding...

The screener makes a forward motion with her torso that is clearly not just bracing herself for contact.

Illegal screen.

As mentioned before, there is zero percent chance of getting in trouble by blowing your whistle here. Not because of "game management", but because it's the right call, and everybody can see it.

Had she just stood there it would have been a good screen, albeit a tough one (for that defender, anyway). The extra motion was unnecessary and illegal.

Agree the T may have been straight-lined, but I'm thinking his height, along with the rather large height difference between the screener and defender, should have presented the necessary look at the illegal torso action. But full speed, who knows.

"Make all your errors errors of omission" - John Clougherty

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

The violence or lack thereof notwithstanding...

The screener makes a forward motion with her torso that is clearly not just bracing herself for contact.

Illegal screen.

As mentioned before, there is zero percent chance of getting in trouble by blowing your whistle here. Not because of "game management", but because it's the right call, and everybody can see it.

Had she just stood there it would have been a good screen, albeit a tough one (for that defender, anyway). The extra motion was unnecessary and illegal.

Agree the T may have been straight-lined, but I'm thinking his height, along with the rather large height difference between the screener and defender, should have presented the necessary look at the illegal torso action. But full speed, who knows.

"Make all your errors errors of omission" - John Clougherty

I think this is overall well said. The "laying into" the defender by the offensive player is an unnatural move or overt move. She is not bracing herself she is trying to add a little extra to her screen. That is not a legitimate basketball move or play.

I agree that the game management reason is not the best statement to make here but I understand what he's saying. You could def be wrong on this play but be right cause no one is going to say a word.

Final verdict from me: illegal screen in every sense!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The fact that we had to look at the play in slow motion (from two angles BTW) should tell you and everyone something.

While the play from a couple weeks ago was very difficult (I looked at it time after time and was only sure after seeing it frame-by-frame), this play took me 1 shot to judge and I decided before I even got to the replay. There is no way that this is anything but a block (illegal screen) and the trail should expect to receive a severe tounge lashing from somebody after that not calling that one (coach, assignor, evaluator, etc.)

[Tio]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

While the play from a couple weeks ago was very difficult (I looked at it time after time and was only sure after seeing it frame-by-frame), this play took me 1 shot to judge and I decided before I even got to the replay. There is no way that this is anything but a block (illegal screen) and the trail should expect to receive a severe tounge lashing from somebody after that not calling that one (coach, assignor, evaluator, etc.)

I think this possibly is a 2 official play with the C picking up the screener, but the bottom line is the T got surpised. Somebody needs to make the call.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Tio

I think this possibly is a 2 official play with the C picking up the screener, but the bottom line is the T got surpised. Somebody needs to make the call.

The C would not likely have this call. The C is in the FC, there are only two players without the ball. This was not a full court team press.

Peace

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The C would not likely have this call. The C is in the FC, there are only two players without the ball. This was not a full court team press.

Peace

No on this point he is absolutely right. Anytime there is anything other than a 1 on 1 matchup in the bc(Iow 3 or more players) the C should stay back. The ball is the most important part of the game and that is where everyone is watching so plays in its immediate vicinity must have more eyes on it in multiple player situations.

So in reference to this play I would not want 2 refs, my c especially, reffing that hard off ball in the FC when the ball is still 50+ ft from the basket. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

[zebraman]

I'm a stickler for a patient C who does not bail out on the T, but I think there was just too much going on off-ball for the C to be helping the T all the way across the court there in backcourt. The pace was fast and the C needed to watch the transitioning players in front of him and get his butt to the other end. If there was a call to be made, it had to come from the T and he would have had to have been reffing "one play ahead" to see the whole thing.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

No on this point he is absolutely right. Anytime there is anything other than a 1 on 1 matchup in the bc(Iow 3 or more players) the C should stay back. The ball is the most important part of the game and that is where everyone is watching so plays in its immediate vicinity must have more eyes on it in multiple player situations.

So in reference to this play I would not want 2 refs, my c especially, reffing that hard off ball in the FC when the ball is still 50+ ft from the basket. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

He is not right according to the mechanics I work under.

If that is what he wants to do, then so be it. But the ball was near the FT line in the BC, I would not be back in the BC with only 3 players there if I was the center. And with all the players on the other end of the court, I do not want to leave one official covering them all alone. One official can handle three pretty well if you ask me. They can handle three players in a HC situation. And I do not care where everyone is looking; it is what everyone is not looking at that can get you in the most trouble.

Peace