revisit interupt dribble-OOB

[Bart Tyson]

Awhile back we had a discussion about a player dribbling the ball along the side line, loosing his balance and falls oob. Now we have an interupted dribble. I said he can't come back inbounds and be the 1st to touch. Everyone else on this board said i was banans. Now i read where NF and NCAA want the player called OOB when he touches OOB. This is going to make us distinguish between dribbling and at the last second the player ends his dribble by taping the ball inbounds just before falling oob.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
Awhile back we had a discussion about a player dribbling the ball along the side line, loosing his balance and falls oob. Now we have an interupted dribble. I said he can't come back inbounds and be the 1st to touch. Everyone else on this board said i was banans. Now i read where NF and NCAA want the player called OOB when he touches OOB. This is going to make us distinguish between dribbling and at the last second the player ends his dribble by taping the ball inbounds just before falling oob.

A player is located on the court where they last touched or where they are currently touching. So that "cannot be the last to touch it" stuff does not fly. You are thinking of a football phrase and that is what I think you are getting confused by. That only applies to football (at least what I am aware of) and does not apply to basketball. Look under the definitions of "Location" and the definition of "dribble." If you have a dribble, a player can never touch the line if they are in the process of dribbling the ball. But if they dribble has ended they can touch the OB line and not have violated anything. You need to understand location and dribble and then it should make more sense.


Peace

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
Now i read where NF and NCAA want the player called OOB when he touches OOB.

You read it where?

A player who is dribbling the ball and touches OOB has committed a violation, as soon as he touches OOB.

A player who has an interrupted dribble, and then goes OOB, can most certainly come back in and retrieve the ball. There is no player control, just as there is no PC in 7.1.1B,C.

And if you think any different, you're still bananas!

I'm not sure what Rut is speaking of in terms of football.

[JRutledge]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BktBallRef

I'm not sure what Rut is speaking of in terms of football.

Illegal Participation in many codes of Football. If you are out of bounds, you cannot be the first to touch it under certain situations. That is probably where he is getting that "idea" from and relating it to basketball.

Peace

[Bart Tyson]

I think you both missed the point or you choose not to address the situation i described. They are saying A1 is dribbling. Eventhough A1 is not in contact with the ball and lost her balance and steps oob, beep violation, the ball is bouncing inbounds. So, what are you going to call when you see the player dribbling along the side line and you see her losing her balance, and last sec. she taps the ball one last time to keep it inbounds then she steps oob? Her intent is to end to dribble by keeping the ball inbounds and then falling oob.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
Her intent is to end to dribble by keeping the ball inbounds and then falling oob.

Bart, you just answered your own question. She ended the dribble by pushing away from herself to keep it inbounds. If the dribble has ended, then there's no player control. Ball is still live. And as long as she touches a foot inbounds before touching the ball, she may also be the first to touch it.

If she's dribbling and touches OOB, violation. If the dribble has ended and she touches OOB, play on.

Chuck

[Bart Tyson]

Chuck, I agree, kinda, I was just taking it a little further then the point in the article. That Mag. i'm not sure if i should say the name b/c of the previous problems. Anyway they just said when a dribbler loses her balance and
falls oob when not in contact with the ball we have violation as soon as the player touches oob. I was taking the point further. Diff. situation, dribbler loses balance, falls oob just before another player grabs the ball. Remember she taps the ball one last time to the floor, making sure she is not touching the ball as she touches oob. I have seen this type play and i have passed on the violation b/c i felt she tried to end the dribble. Sometimes to isn't so clear if they try to end the dribble, the player justs wants to keep the ball inbounds before stepping oob. then they make sure they don't touch the ball until another player touches it. Maybe you have to read the article.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
Chuck, I agree, kinda, I was just taking it a little further then the point in the article. That Mag. i'm not sure if i should say the name b/c of the previous problems. Anyway they just said when a dribbler loses her balance and
falls oob when not in contact with the ball we have violation as soon as the player touches oob. I was taking the point further. Diff. situation, dribbler loses balance, falls oob just before another player grabs the ball. Remember she taps the ball one last time to the floor, making sure she is not touching the ball as she touches oob. I have seen this type play and i have passed on the violation b/c i felt she tried to end the dribble. Sometimes to isn't so clear if they try to end the dribble, the player justs wants to keep the ball inbounds before stepping oob. then they make sure they don't touch the ball until another player touches it. Maybe you have to read the article.

It's referee judgment as to whether it's an interrupted dribble or not. If it's an interrupted dribble, no violation; not an interrupted dribble == violation.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
I think you both missed the point or you choose not to address the situation i described. They are saying A1 is dribbling. Even though A1 is not in contact with the ball and lost her balance and steps oob, beep violation, the ball is bouncing inbounds.

No, I'm afraid you're missing the point. This is not a violation if it occurs during an interrupted dribble.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by JRutledge
Illegal Participation in many codes of Football. If you are out of bounds, you cannot be the first to touch it under certain situations.

I'm not sure which rules are written that way, possibly NFL. In NF play, it's IP for A to intentionally go OOB and then return. The IP occurs on the return. Touching the ball after re-entering the field is of no consequence.

[Bart Tyson]

My point was; awhile back we discussed this and you interpreted this play as being an interupted dribble and the player could come back in and be the 1st to touch. NF and NCAA, according to the article is saying NO, call the violation when the player touches OOB.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
My point was; awhile back we discussed this and you interpreted this play as being an interupted dribble and the player could come back in and be the 1st to touch. NF and NCAA, according to the article is saying NO, call the violation when the player touches OOB.

I assume this is in RefMag? Where? I looked (briefly) in the most recent edition, but couldn't find it.

If you've accurately described the play, either they didnt' interpret it as an interupted dribble, or they blew the call.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
My point was; awhile back we discussed this and you interpreted this play as being an interupted dribble and the player could come back in and be the 1st to touch. NF and NCAA, according to the article is saying NO, call the violation when the player touches OOB.

And I stand behind that interpretation. If I had a dollar for every time REFEREE has print a mis-interpretation or published the wrong answer to a quiz, I could take a very nice vacation.

This isn't rocket science. If it's an interrupted dribble, then he can come back in and retrieve the ball. If it isn't interrupted, it's a violation when he steps on the line, not when he comes back in and retrieves the ball.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by BktBallRef


And I stand behind that interpretation. If I had a dollar for every time REFEREE has print a mis-interpretation or published the wrong answer to a quiz, I could take a very nice vacation.

OK, so here's Tony's price list so far:

o Catching your own airball ------- $5
o Mistakes in Referee magazine ---- $1

This isn't rocket science. If it's an interrupted dribble, then he can come back in and retrieve the ball. If it isn't interrupted, it's a violation when he steps on the line, not when he comes back in and retrieves the ball.

I agree.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

OK, so here's Tony's price list so far:

o Catching your own airball ------- $5
o Mistakes in Referee magazine ---- $1