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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 22, 2002, 10:53am
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Angry

For a charge to take place, can the defenders feet come of the ground, going straight up?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 22, 2002, 11:08am
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Quote:
Originally posted by EricKit
For a charge to take place, can the defenders feet come of the ground, going straight up?
Yes.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 22, 2002, 11:15am
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:
Yes.
Agreed.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 22, 2002, 12:51pm
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally posted by EricKit
For a charge to take place, can the defenders feet come of the ground, going straight up?
Eric,
As long as the defender is not moving toward the ball handler, by rule, the defender should be okay.
In practice, many officials will automatically and erroneously call the defender illegal for moving his feet in any direction.
If we are watching the defender (refereeing the defense) as opposed to watching the ball handler, and the defender is in fact "straight up", the player that is initiating the contact is very easy to choose.
mick
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 22, 2002, 12:56pm
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Thanks

One more thing, if someone is jumping and bends forward to jump, which is a natural position to take in a jump, he has sort of leaned forward leaving his verticality, but if he has returned to vertical position in the air by the time he is hit is it a charge or no?
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Old Mon Apr 22, 2002, 01:03pm
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Jeez, mick, you messed up the one-word responses.

Chuck
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 22, 2002, 01:29pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Jeez, mick, you messed up the one-word responses.

Chuck
Chuck,
I hope you aren't really angry about that.
I just felt that a little explanation was due.
Heck, it wasn't that long.
mick
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Old Mon Apr 22, 2002, 01:30pm
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Re: Thanks

Quote:
Originally posted by EricKit
One more thing, if someone is jumping and bends forward to jump, which is a natural position to take in a jump, he has sort of leaned forward leaving his verticality, but if he has returned to vertical position in the air by the time he is hit is it a charge or no?
Eric,

I'm having a tough time envisioning what you describe. But it sounds like you're saying that the defender is jumping forward (towards the shooter) but gets his hands straight up before contact with the shooter. In that situation, I will call a blocking foul on the defender (unless the shooter wards him off or punches him or something). The reason is that he jumped into the shooter's path.

The principle of verticality isn't entirely about how your hands are positioned. It states that a player is entitled to the space he's standing on, from the floor all the way to the ceiling. Jumping forward (outside of that "spot" on the floor) means that you are not necessarily entitled to your position anymore, b/c you've left your spot. If contact occurs in that situation, the foul is probably on the defender.

But maybe you knew that. Maybe you were asking about a defender who bends or shields himself within his vertical plane in order to lessen the impact of a collision with the shooter, or to jump higher; but then straightens himself before any contact occurs. In this case, as long as the defender doesn't extend his hands toward the shooter before impact, the contact is the responsibility of the offensive player; if the contact warrants a foul call, it should be a player control foul.

I hope that doesn't just confuse you more.

Chuck
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 22, 2002, 01:32pm
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Re: Thanks

Quote:
Originally posted by EricKit
One more thing, if someone is jumping and bends forward to jump, which is a natural position to take in a jump, he has sort of leaned forward leaving his verticality, but if he has returned to vertical position in the air by the time he is hit is it a charge or no?
Eric,
By officiating the defense we can tell if the defender is drifting toward the ball handler, or not.
Bending forward, and then elevating, is just fine.
Don't make this Hoops thing into rocket science.
T'isn't.
mick
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Old Mon Apr 22, 2002, 01:43pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by mick
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Jeez, mick, you messed up the one-word responses.

Chuck
Chuck,
I hope you aren't really angry about that.
Course not, as you can tell by my reply to Eric's follow-up question. Sometimes, tho, our replies to certain threads take on a life of their own, and I thought maybe one-worders might take off.

Chuck
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 22, 2002, 04:42pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias

Course not, as you can tell by my reply to Eric's follow-up question. Sometimes, tho, our replies to certain threads take on a life of their own, and I thought maybe one-worders might take off.

Chuck
Nope.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 22, 2002, 05:06pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias

Course not, as you can tell by my reply to Eric's follow-up question. Sometimes, tho, our replies to certain threads take on a life of their own, and I thought maybe one-worders might take off.

Chuck
Nope.
Agree.
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Old Mon Apr 22, 2002, 05:13pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by bob jenkins
Nope.
Agree. [/B]
Darn
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 22, 2002, 06:51pm
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This is a lot of information, proably more than any of you wish to know, but i think it is important


-to obtain legal guarding position a player must have both feet on the floor and the gaurd's torso must be facing the opponent

-From this position, the gaurd may rise or jump vertically and occupy the space w/in the vertical plane

-the arms and hands of the defender may be raised w/in this vertical plane while on the floor or in the air

-There is no penalty for the gaurd leaving the floor vertically or having the arms or hands extended w/in the vertical plane

Commments:
-THe offensive player wheather on the floor or airborne, may not "lear out" or cause contact w/ the defender's vertical plane. player control foul or personal foul

-The gaurd may not "Belly Up" or use the lower part of the body or arms to cause contact outside the vertical plane.

-The player with the ball is not to be given more protection or consideration than the defender in judgine which player has violated the rule

Block/Charge

Blocking is illegal personal contact which impedes the progress of an opponent.

-The gaurd has not established legal guarding posistion

Comments:
gaurding an opponent w/ the ball or a stationary opponent w/o the ball, no time or distance is required to obtain an initial legal position, if the opponent w/ the ball is airborne, the gaurd must obtained a legal position b4 the opponent left the floor.
-Gaurding a moving opponent w/o the ball requires more time and distance to establish lgp. the distance need not be more than two strides, if the opponent is airborne. the gaurd must obtain a legal posistion b4 the opponent left the floor.

charging is illegal personal contact caused by pushing or moving into an opponent's torso.

-a player w/ the ball is required to stop or change direction to avoid contact if a defensive player has obtained a legal gaurding position in the player's path.
-If a gaurd has obtained a legal posision, the player w/ the ball must get teh head and shoulder past the front of the torso of the defensive player. If contact occurs, on the front torso of the defensive player, teh dribbler is responsible for the contact.

i appologize if i confused or bored anyone
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Old Mon Apr 22, 2002, 06:57pm
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if he screwed w/ the one word thing, i really must have...
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