Honestly.

[johnSandlin]

Rut,
Here is a list of both womens & mens Final Four officiating crews and I will also say, all crews on both sides did a very outstanding job. Furthermore, as for saying you did not see this in a post before, I have to disagree with you, because I began a topic on both officiating crews for the mens' and womens' Final Four this year. Also, I think some of your more recent comments have been unprofessional as an official in regards to the responses of this topic and you should review that within yourself.
Womans' Final Four:
Duke/Oklahoma Semi
Bryan Enterline
John Morningstar
Barb Smith

Tennessee/UConn Semi
Sally Bell
Angie Lewis
Dennis DeMayo

Womens' NCAA Final:
Scott Yarbrough
Mellissa Barlow
Lisa Mattingly

Mens' Final Four:
Oklahoma/Indiana Semi
Mike Kitts
David Libbey
Duke Edsell

Maryland/Kansas Semi
Tim Higgins
Ed Hightower
Ed Corbett

Mens' NCAA Final
Jim Burr
Richard Cartmell
Tony Greene

[JRutledge]

This topic was brought up not to give a list of the officials. I personally do not care who the officials are, I only cared what people thought of the officiating of the two sides. There were several posts about the Men's Tournament. Whether it be a play or the individuals themselves that officate them, not one was about anything that I can recall that came directly from the NCAA Women's Tournament. And I raised the issue (and I always will raise issues) about conversations that I have had, or that I have heard others bring up when there is a discussion about both Men's and Women's Basketball. And most people I know and talk to, have an opinion about something related to the topic. I thought people on this "intelligent" board would want to have that same discussion. But I am starting to think that officials are more and more narrow minded on this board. Because if you do not believe or think they way they do, all that they can do is name call. No wonder fans and coaches hate many of us.

And about the "PROFESSIONALISM." John, I do not use the internet as a judge of people I will never meet or know. Especially to a bunch of people that use differnet names as aliases and alter-egos to hide who they truely are. This is me, take it or leave it. And if you were to ever meet me, I would say the same thing to you here as I would in a bar after the game. I stand by my comments. I always have and always will. I know what I say and mean what I say. You have the right to your opinion and so do I.

Peace

[rainmaker]

Jeff-

I just got back from an NBA game and, I must say, I thought it was boring and not worth the money I spent. The officials did not do a particularly good job, and the game itself was quite tiresome. Even the dancers' performance was repetetive and inane. The announcer was unintelligible, and the boor behind me didn't make any interesting stupid remarks.

I am SO looking forward to the WNBA season which doesnt start for another five weeks or so. I don't understand your preference for the men's game, but of course you are entitled to your opinion. Still there really is no way to compare the two. It's apples and oranges.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by rainmaker
Jeff-

I just got back from an NBA game and, I must say, I thought it was boring and not worth the money I spent. The officials did not do a particularly good job, and the game itself was quite tiresome. Even the dancers' performance was repetetive and inane. The announcer was unintelligible, and the boor behind me didn't make any interesting stupid remarks.

I am SO looking forward to the WNBA season which doesnt start for another five weeks or so. I don't understand your preference for the men's game, but of course you are entitled to your opinion. Still there really is no way to compare the two. It's apples and oranges.

Juulie,

I am not a big NBA fan anyway. So who cares about the NBA. So I definitely do not give a damn about the WNBA.

You are right, apples and oranges. That is why some people do not like apples and other people like oranges.

Peace

[johnSandlin]

Rut,

The only reason I made the commen to you about professionalism was because of some of your recent responses to other members of this forum. I understand that you are entitled to your opinion, just like I am entitled to my opinion, but I respectfully have to say that I would respond to fellow officials that I know or do not know the same way you have. That was my only reason for concern and the reason behind the my most recent comments to you. Thank you.

John

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by johnSandlin
Rut,

The only reason I made the commen to you about professionalism was because of some of your recent responses to other members of this forum. I understand that you are entitled to your opinion, just like I am entitled to my opinion, but I respectfully have to say that I would respond to fellow officials that I know or do not know the same way you have. That was my only reason for concern and the reason behind the my most recent comments to you. Thank you.

John

I am assuming that you meant that you would not respond to fellow officials they way I did. That being said, officiating does not make me, if I were to give it up tomorrow life goes on. I stand by what I said and the way I said it. It is not like any of these individuals are people I work with or will work with. And just like anything else in my life, this thing I do has a place in life. And responding to a bunch of people that do not make me is not on the front of those priorities.

A wise person told me a long time ago, to "know your place in life." I do, does everyone else that gives a $hit about what I say do?

Peace

[johnSandlin]

JRut,

I understand what you are saying about standing behind what you have already said and/or will say in the future, for I do the samething as well. However, the point I was trying to make is, I would probably not respond to fellow officials the way that you do sometimes. I am a firm believer that things that you say can comeback to haunt you down the road, because it gets back to an assignor you work for, or a crew you work for. I am not saying that I do not defend myself in the world of officiating, but I am saying that I may go about it in a little bit quieter, and less confronting fashion. Also, I know as well that people I talk to in this forum are officials I may never work with as well. However, I look at the world of officiating this way..... We are in this together. Brothers and sisters of officiating, like a family. Then, let us treat each other like a family. Just trying to be helpful and positive. Take care.

John

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by johnSandlin
Just trying to be helpful and positive.

Then why the [bleep] are you posting to this thread?!?!?! There hasn't been one positive or helpful post in this whole thing!!!

Ok, I vote we let this one die now. Please?

Chuck

[johnSandlin]

Chuck,

I totally agree with you. Let's let it be over with.

John

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by johnSandlin
JRut,

I understand what you are saying about standing behind what you have already said and/or will say in the future, for I do the samething as well. However, the point I was trying to make is, I would probably not respond to fellow officials the way that you do sometimes. I am a firm believer that things that you say can comeback to haunt you down the road, because it gets back to an assignor you work for, or a crew you work for. I am not saying that I do not defend myself in the world of officiating, but I am saying that I may go about it in a little bit quieter, and less confronting fashion. Also, I know as well that people I talk to in this forum are officials I may never work with as well. However, I look at the world of officiating this way..... We are in this together. Brothers and sisters of officiating, like a family. Then, let us treat each other like a family. Just trying to be helpful and positive. Take care.

John

Well if something I say comes back to "haunt me" (your words not mine) then so be it. If talking about things that officials talk about during association meetings, pregame conferences or any social or banquet that I have attended and someone gets offended, that to me says more about them then me. If all you have to do is raise an issue especially when this is talked about on soooo many different levels (talk radio, between officials, between fans and coaches) and you cannot ask a bunch of people that actually are involved in the sport very deeply, then that is just too bad. And if an assignor that holds deeper views about this who they assign their Boys Varsity and Men's College holds this conversation against me, then I do not want to work for them anyway. I know my place in life and I know my place in officiating. I am not going to wither and die because someone does not want me to officiate something because I made a comment or two. I am an independent contractor, I can work for every I want and who every I want. I already work for too many assignors and schools already. It would not hurt me to cut back on one or two. But I love to officiate in different places so I do it.

I did not curse out anyone. I did not call them names. All I did was voice and express my opinion about an issue that seems to come up everytime I do a game. Because my state has playoffs for both girls and boys held at different times and for the big and small schools separate, this tends to be a constant issue. I am so sorry that most of you are required to have your playoffs to have a boys then a girls game all the way to the finals. Here we do not, and especially when the playoff assignments are given, you always have this issue raised. Then it turns into who does what level and why?

If any of my comments offended people, that is unfortunate, but I am not going to lose sleep over it. And I am surely not going to stop telling people what I think. If you do not like it, do not read it. My life and your life will go on. Believe that. I guess it is a Midwestern thing and city thang. Most people I know around here always voice their opinion, and we then get over it.

Peace

[rockyroad]

Actually, you did curse and you did call people names - you just went back later and deleted it and put something else in...and all ANYONE did was voice their opinion - you were the only one to jump all over anyone else about their opinion...

[ChuckElias]

Sigh. I said "please"!

Chuck

[rockyroad]

Sorry Chuck...in the words of Roberto Duran - "no mas"...

[Mark Padgett]

OK, I've stayed out of this because it was getting really personal and nasty. But - let's try to get back to the original question, which I think is a valid one. Is the quality of men's officiating higher than that of women's officiating?

Of course, any answer to this would be a broad generalization (and Juulie, I mean "broad" in the dictionary definition sense of the word, not slang).

I think it's fair to say that in many associations, there are a lot of experienced officials who will not accept or ask for assignments to girl's games. It seems to be some kind of "image" thing. These officials feel that they will be "downgrading" or something like that if they do girl's games. Because they will not do them, and because these groups consist of many very good officials, it naturally follows that there is a higher percentage of top officials doing boy's and men's games than girl's and women's games.

Now, does this mean that there aren't any great officials doing girl's and women's games? Of course not. Does this mean that all officials doing boy's and men's games are great? Again, of course not. It doesn't even mean that on any given game night, the quality of officials doing boy's and men's games is higher than the quality of officials doing girl's and women's games.

It just means that in general, better officials are more likely to be working boy's and men's games by choice.

There - I hope I contributed without any personal attacks or getting nasty. Plus - I made sure I didn't offend my buddy, Juulie. I should get double points for that.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
OK, I've stayed out of this because it was getting really personal and nasty. But - let's try to get back to the original question, which I think is a valid one. Is the quality of men's officiating higher than that of women's officiating?

Of course, any answer to this would be a broad generalization (and Juulie, I mean "broad" in the dictionary definition sense of the word, not slang).

I think it's fair to say that in many associations, there are a lot of experienced officials who will not accept or ask for assignments to girl's games. It seems to be some kind of "image" thing. These officials feel that they will be "downgrading" or something like that if they do girl's games. Because they will not do them, and because these groups consist of many very good officials, it naturally follows that there is a higher percentage of top officials doing boy's and men's games than girl's and women's games.

Now, does this mean that there aren't any great officials doing girl's and women's games? Of course not. Does this mean that all officials doing boy's and men's games are great? Again, of course not. It doesn't even mean that on any given game night, the quality of officials doing boy's and men's games is higher than the quality of officials doing girl's and women's games.

It just means that in general, better officials are more likely to be working boy's and men's games by choice.

There - I hope I contributed without any personal attacks or getting nasty. Plus - I made sure I didn't offend my buddy, Juulie. I should get double points for that.

Good Lord, Finally a person of reason. This is what I was asking for. This is a constant debate with many officials that I know. And this is why I asked the "stupid" question to begin with. I wanted to see what "intelligent" people would thought. Especially when commentators are ranting about how bad Women's Officials were. And since many of us that move up are told to choose, I wanted to see if others felt the same way.

Peace