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Thu Apr 04, 2002, 08:54am
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JR, I love officiating Women's BB. Unless you are a committed Women's official, i don't believe you will ever understand why we love the game. I do watch the Women's game when i get the chance. About the same as the men's game. It's like any game i watch, if it is a good game, it might keep my interest. You are correct about the interest in the Women's Final Four. I think the reasons are many, for one, this year, the games were not competitive like the men's games. Its all about numbers, there are not near as many great women players as men players. I do get many competitive games throughout the year. Like any game, when i get a great game, it makes it all worth it.
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foulbuster 
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Thu Apr 04, 2002, 09:54am
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JR,
You bring up valid points in the discussion. I was not trying to create a gender issue either. I have to admit, when I first started as well, I was not even entertaining the idea of womens basketball, but now that I have done womens games, I enjoy it better then the mens games. Food for thought. John
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Thu Apr 04, 2002, 11:04am
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Re: The reason I posted this.
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You have to admit there is some possibility that the women's games were so perfectly called, that there is simply nothing more to be said!! juulie
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Thu Apr 04, 2002, 03:41pm
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I watched the Women's Final Four just like I watched the Men's...didn't have any big complaints or gripes about either one, so felt no desire to post about either Final Four...now that the question has been asked - again- I will say again that I usually don't respond to these types of posts, but some days I can't resist...are Men's officials bettter than Women's? What an assinine question - of course not. Are the mechanics, points of emphasis, floor coverages different? Yep...that may be why some are so lost watching the Women's games...I will also say that quite often I have no clue why Men's officials make/don't make certain calls, and why they make them from the Lead position when the C has a much better look at the play, but then I don't know the Men's mechanics, etc...I will also say that I had to choose several years ago between doing Men's or Women's ball...I choose Women's NCAA ball - knowing the quality of play would not be as high - but I chose Women's because I was sick of the egos on the Men's side...the attitude of people like Mr. Rutledge and many others I encountered doing Men's games really turned me off...I have found - so far - that the officials on the Women's side are much more fun to work with and to hang around with before and after games...again, just another person's two cents worth...
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Thu Apr 04, 2002, 05:10pm
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Will you get past your attitude?
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What is my attitude? I guess my telling you that I perfer one level over another is more interesting to me? If I tell you that I perfer watching Women's tennis over Men's Tennis do I still have an attitude? Do I have an attitude because I feel that the Women's tennis is more competitive and that the Women's game is more exciting because there are more rallies and anyone can win on any given match? Or is it because you have proven yourself to be shallow and reduce this discussion into a debate over gender? If I were to tell you that I perfer umpiring baseball over (Fast-Pitch)softball, because I actually played baseball and did not grow up playing softball. And because I played did not play softball and did play baseball, will you critisize me too because I have a preference between the two sports. I know several softball umpires that only umpire softball because of the time it takes to do a game as compared to baseball that can take much longer. I do not feel the need to be critical over them. Actually, more power to them. I have got a better idea, maybe I should be critical of you because you like the Women's game over the Men's? Is something not wrong with you and your attitude? I just simply asked the question mainly because I heard nothing about plays, calls or even anyone talking about the officiating in the Women's NCAA Tournament. I asked an earlier question "was anyone paying attention to the Women's Tournament," and many said no or that they did not even care. I watched the tournament mainly to watch the officials and I saw many things that seemed odd to me. I do college basketball in both so I wanted to watch the mechanics and the calls. I asked because it felt like no one else was paying attention and it appears that I was right. If you were to ask me what I perfer, I will always say the Men's. Actually I would personally rather doing a HS varsity boys game over any college Men's or Women's game any day at this point of my career. Or until I get the big D1 assignment which might never happen to me. Grow up, this question was about the interest. Considering that the ratings for the UConn-Okalahoma Championship game was the highest rating ever for a college basketball game that ESPN has ever had, I would think that the officials that love talking basketball would be watching and coming here and discussing the happenings throughout the tournament. But as I see, I was right. Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
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Thu Apr 04, 2002, 09:22pm
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Thu Apr 04, 2002, 09:59pm
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foulbuster
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Thu Apr 04, 2002, 11:58pm
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Interesting thread title: HONESTLY
JRUT...
Honestly, I have seen you be overly critical of women's basketball throughout your postings on this forum. Honestly, I do not understand your agenda. Have you been spurned by someone (of female persuasion) that you feel the need to lash out? Honestly, you have previously, passionately posted about the right of someone to maintain their beliefs and scolded those who have challenged that right. Yet, you are lambasting those who may not agree with your postition on this issue. I find it appalling that you even pose your original question. Honestly, I find Women's basketball as exciting and rewarding as the Men's game. Honestly, I am tired of your tirade, but acknowledge you have the right to continue. Many of our fellow Americans, men AND WOMEN have shed their blood fighting to defend freedom of speech. Honestly, I hope you re-evaluate your attitude on this issue and move on in life. PEACE [Edited by williebfree on Apr 4th, 2002 at 11:01 PM]
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"Stay in the game!"
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Fri Apr 05, 2002, 12:50am
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OK, I will gladly answer.
Williebfree,
I have your answer for you. ************************************************** ****** Honestly, I have seen you be overly critical of women's basketball throughout your postings on this forum. Last time I checked I can do that. I hear many being critical of the NBA and the officials that officiate it, I think they have that right too. Do you see me getting on here and saying, "WHY THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE NBA? WHAT DO YOU HAVE AGAINST THE NBA? DO YOU HAVE PROBLEMS AGAINST THE NBA?" Hell no, I do not care what you or others think about the NBA. That is what choices are all about. ************************************************** ********* Honestly, I do not understand your agenda. Have you been spurned by someone (of female persuasion) that you feel the need to lash out? Hellooooo. Are the rules the same in NCAA Men's and Women's? Are the officials the same on both sides? Did you see the same officials working both Final Four Games? Are the mechanics the same? Why does the lead signal a 3 point shot in Women's and they do not in Men's? Why does the Women do not have any kind of 10 second count? Why is the 5 second count totally different in the Women's game as compared to the Men's game? You must have never done a college game in your life. Or at least not on both sides. I have so I like to evaluate or debate the mechanics and calls of both. I have been to the Big 10 Men's Tournament the last 3 years and always like to talk about what I see. Sorry I have not had the money to go to both Men's and Women's Tournaments, the Women's Tournament is held during the week while the Men's Tournament mostly during the weekend. I would love to go to both, but I could not get my friends or myself to even go if I wanted to. But then again, you have a degree in Psychology so I guess you can figure out why I cannot afford to get off from all my other responsibilities to travel to two cities or stay a week in Indianapolis to watch both tournaments. But then again, you know don't you?  ************************************************** ********* Honestly, you have previously, passionately posted about the right of someone to maintain their beliefs and scolded those who have challenged that right. Yet, you are lambasting those who may not agree with your postition on this issue. I find it appalling that you even pose your original question. Did I tell you not to post or to have an opinion? I think all I did was ask a question. I just saw no posts about what happen and wanted to know why. If that offends you, find bigger things to be offended by. I was not even offended that no one cared or appeared to not care about Women's basketball (but you all are true fans right?) ************************************************** ********** Honestly, I find Women's basketball as exciting and rewarding as the Men's game. OK, where was your posts praising the jobs of the officials. I did not even see anyone post who the officials are or have discussions about where they were from or how good they were. There was about 4 pages dedicated to who was doing the NCAA Men's Final Four. For some reason, I did not see your post about the Women's Final Four officials. Also remember you said "I." That pertains to you, not me or anyone else. You have that right and more power to you. If I told you that I only date dark haired women or women with long hair, are you going to tell me you are are you going to then be mad because I do not like blondes with short hair?  ************************************************** ******* Honestly, I am tired of your tirade, but acknowledge you have the right to continue. Many of our fellow Americans, men AND WOMEN have shed their blood fighting to defend freedom of speech. Do not read the posts then. This is a free country, I did not tell you what to read or what think about any level. I did not go to you personally to see what you thought. This is why it is called a discussion board. We are suppose to discuss things. ************************************************** ******* Honestly, I hope you re-evaluate your attitdue on this issue and move on in life. This is not life, this is an extremely small part of anything that goes on in this world. If you did not realize, people in the Middle East are killing each other on a daily basis. That is life my friend. Considering that most of us are mainly talking about one side of the ball and the commentators from side of the ball, I just wanted to know why? I did not hear any of you talking about how stupid Mike Patrick was in his critisism of the officials, or Ann Woodward's comments about inconsistency of the officials and how they should be calling the game. I did not even see you discussing the issues of an article that suggested that the Men's coaches were all thrown into the same bracket, to almost insure that the Final Four would only have one team that was coached by a Man, if one at all. I did not see you talking about how much of a travesty that was? If you are this easily offended, then please do not read any of my post. I guarantee you will be offended further. Because in my area and my associations, we have several discussions of what levels we do and why? As it relates to training and evaluation or even who we decide to vote in as board members or who we work for, you better be concerned with what level you want to do. Only 2 assignors that I work for, assign both Girls and Boys basketball. And they admittedly will not assign you to both in most cases, because everyone down to the coaches and Athletic Directors do not want to see you in both. And if the reason that people are only watching the Men's game is because they are trying to get better at watching the Men's game because that is all they care about, I wanted to know. I will admit that it is selfish on many levels and that I wanted to know. I sure as hell was not offended or even cared when this board went on and on about how stupid commentators are and they comments they make. What do you expect from people that are fans, former coaches and former players. But I would not call those obsessed that kept bringing up those points. If that is what they wanted to talk about, so be it. It was funny to me and I moved on. Peace [Edited by JRutledge on Apr 5th, 2002 at 12:55 AM]
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
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Fri Apr 05, 2002, 03:37pm
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Re: OK, I will gladly answer.
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foulbuster
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Sat Apr 06, 2002, 12:17am
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It's like talking to a brick wall, or your idiot cousin at the family reunion...he asks a smart-*** question, then when people answer, he tells them to grow up and goes on another one of his binges...should have just ignored him to start with...sigh....
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Sat Apr 06, 2002, 02:13am
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Some things never change, ya know?
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Sat Apr 06, 2002, 11:42pm
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I guess I was not.
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And considering that the mechanics are different, the officials are different, and some of the rules are different, I was hoping that "intelligent" people could debate and discuss the differences if any between the two levels. Since many of you like to debate how stupid commentators are about the rules and what they say about officials, I have heard several commentators talk about how bad "Women's" officials are. I just thought for those "intelligent" people this would be an interesting debate. I guess I have to just sigh myself, but I expect more from people that debate and discuss comments from a person that does not "really" exist, and discuss the "stupid" comments from commentators that are former players and coaches. Helloooooo, they are FORMER COACHES AND PLAYERS!!!! You expect intelligent comments from coaches and players? Since when did that happen? What the hell was I thinking. I guess I was not. Oh well, life goes on. Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
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Sun Apr 07, 2002, 12:09am
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This is for Rut
Rut,
Here is a list of both womens & mens Final Four officiating crews and I will also say, all crews on both sides did a very outstanding job. Furthermore, as for you did not see this in a post before, I have to disagree with you, because I began a topic on both officiating crews for the mens' and womens' Final Four this year. Also, I think some of your more recent comments have been unprofessional as an official in regards to the responses of this topic and you should review that within yourself. Womans' Final Four: Mens' Final Four: Duke/Oklahoma Semi Oklahoma/Indiana Semi Bryan Enterline Mike Kitts John Morningstar David Libbey Barb Smith Duke Edsall Tennessee/UConn Semi Maryland/Kansas Semi Sally Bell Tim Higgins Angie Lewis Ed Hightower Dennis DeMayo Ed Corbett Womans' NCAA Final Mens' NCAA Final Scott Yarbrough Jim Burr Mellissa Barlow Richard Cartmell Lisa Mattingly Tony Greene
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