Is this "over"-officiating?

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

8th grade boys summer league. Second of three games, so when the game ends I'm walking over to the scorer's table to sit and wait five minutes or so for the next game to start. Close game; blue wins by 2. I don't make it over in time to get through before the handshake line starts, so I end up standing there watching it waiting for them to get done so I can sit down. One kid on white throws a fairly hard shoulder into blue's point guard. I'm stunned and decide to scold the white player, "#25, knock it off!"

Within a second or two I'm thinking about calling a T then realize that it doesn't matter anyway, blue won. But had the score been reversed I probably would've called it.

Bad idea?

[JRutledge]

If this was a normal game, you likely would not even be around. I would let the coaches and administrators take care of it for a summer league. IMHO, let it go.

Peace

[Adam]

While I agree you wouldn't normally be there (tough to disagree with the obvious, even for a skeptic like me), and that a T might not be appropriate.

I think what you did do is appropriate. Summer league 8th grade ball, I think we get some extra lattitude to deal with these things.

If you ignore it, it shows both kids that no one is watching.

I think of the cutoff as the point at which the next two teams start warming up and the clock is counting down (in this case 5:00.) It's somewhat arbitrary, but it makes sense to me. In this case, I think the situation was prior to this cutoff, but a T is at least debatable.

I would, however, add that the score isn't relevant, I don't think, to whether you should call this T. The benefits to calling it go beyond the freethrows; especially in leagues that track them and suspend accordingly.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I would, however, add that the score isn't relevant, I don't think, to whether you should call this T. The benefits to calling it go beyond the freethrows; especially in leagues that track them and suspend accordingly.

Gotta agree here. The purpose of summer leagues is for kids to learn. One thing they should learn is sportsmanship. I think I would tell the scorer to record it, tell the coach it was called and mention to him that it might be a good idea to discuss it with the player. I think if you maintain the right attitude about it, the coach should appreciate the heads up.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Gotta agree here. The purpose of summer leagues is for kids to learn. One thing they should learn is sportsmanship. I think I would tell the scorer to record it, tell the coach it was called and mention to him that it might be a good idea to discuss it with the player. I think if you maintain the right attitude about it, the coach should appreciate the heads up.

I agree, but giving a T is not going to necessarily teach sportsmanship. I have no problem if an official helps restore order (if you want to), but penalizing a situation that normally would be over is something else. Unless the league has special rules to handle after game situations, then OK.

Peace

[Raymond]

I leave it alone in this environment. For all you know the 2 kids could be cousins or best friends or whatever and it's just their way of 'funning' each other.

As stated, in normal circumstances you would not have been there. During off-season ball, I always make it a point to either stay completely clear of the table until both teams have vacated the area or I walk around and go directly to the bleachers or officials' sitting area. In the summer I want no part of what goes on after the final horn blows.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If this was a normal game, you likely would not even be around. I would let the coaches and administrators take care of it for a summer league. IMHO, let it go.

Ignore unsporting conduct that happens directly in front of the official.
Wonderful advice.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Ignore unsporting conduct that happens directly in front of the official.
Wonderful advice.

Outside of Massachusetts since when are we responsible for monitoring the post-game handshake. Summer leagues and tournaments I'm a private citizen as soon as the game ends.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Ignore unsporting conduct that happens directly in front of the official.
Wonderful advice.

Once again you miss the point. Then again this is not the first time so I do not expect you to understand the explanation.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Once again you miss the point. Then again this is not the first time so I do not expect you to understand the explanation.

Nope, I understand your position quite clearly. You want to pass the buck and let someone else deal with it because it occurred after the final horn. You just don't have the stones to take care of business right under your nose because it causes less waves to simply look the other way.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Outside of Massachusetts since when are we responsible for monitoring the post-game handshake.

He wasn't "monitoring" the postgame handshake as MA requires of their postseason officials, he was simply attempting to exit the court when an unsporting act occurred right in front of him. NFHS rule 2-2-4 very clearly states that he still has jurisdiction.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Summer leagues and tournaments I'm a private citizen as soon as the game ends.

BS. You just don't deal with it because you don't want to. That's the easy path which Rut also travels. A sad way to go through life.

It may well be true that in a summer tournament or league there may be no point in assessing a penalty, but that doesn't mean that the right attitude to take once the horns sounds is "Not me" and let someone else deal with it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Nope, I understand your position quite clearly. You want to pass the buck and let someone else deal with it because it occurred after the final horn. You just don't have the stones to take care of business right under your nose because it causes less waves to simply look the other way.

In summer leagues (I know this gets your panties in a bunch, but this statement applies to where I live) we do not have the same rules for summer activity as there is for winter activity as it relates to eligibility, suspensions, forfeits or other penalties. The actions of a player after the game are the coach's or school's problems. In my experience penalizing a player with a T after the game would be pointless. It would not change much of anything in most leagues. Most summer league teams play in a post season format. Or the games are in shootout forms where a team wins does not give them a special prize. I am thinking of a word and that would be "context." We are talking about a summer league, not violence in Darfur.

Peace

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

BS. You just don't deal with it because you don't want to. That's the easy path which Rut also travels. A sad way to go through life.

What's really sad is someone who makes these bitter nasty comments about people simply because he disagrees with them. I would say you're the Barney Fife of officiating but at least old Barney was likeable. You're like the evil Barney Fife of officiating.

Anyway, instead of walking through the handshake line what I usually do in these situations is to walk around the bench to the table area or if that's not possible I'll wait at midcourt for the teams to end the handshake line before going to my seat. Someone else mentioned these kids may have been friends just goofing around, that's true often enough and you really don't want to make yourself look like the evil Barney here. If it seemed like they were serious I would do what you did but I would not throw Ts. Just break it up & move on to the next game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

He wasn't "monitoring" the postgame handshake as MA requires of their postseason officials, he was simply attempting to exit the court when an unsporting act occurred right in front of him. NFHS rule 2-2-4 very clearly states that he still has jurisdiction.

The funny thing is in most summer games most people are involved in do not apply pre-game activities, uniform requirements, dunking rules, coaches meetings and coaching box rules. But all of a sudden we are supposed to enforce jurisdiction rules when we do not deal with the many other rules that involve when and how we enter the court. Next thing you are going to tell me is we should wear jackets before the game and pants because the rules say so. I am sorry that I do not wear black socks instead of white Nike socks with my black shoes. I guess I am out of uniform and not following the strict guidelines of the precious National Federation. I am sure Mary Struckoff will be sending me a stern letter telling me how wrong I am. Then she is going to revoke my license for being such a bad boy all over a summer league that you cannot even name. Maybe Struckoff will revoke my subscription to the NF Quarterly.

Peace

[Dan_ref]

Wow.

This Mary Struckoff seems pretty evil too.