How do you see it all?

[Back In The Saddle]

BV game tonight. Kind of a small gym, so at times I'm closer to the play than I would be otherwise. And that is part of the problem.

Offense is swinging the ball around the perimeter. At this moment it's at about the 28' mark and about 5 feet from the sideline. I'm trying to watch ahead of the play, see the screens to free the next player to receive the pass, etc. So I'm not entirely focusing on the guy with the ball as he's not closely guarded. Also, I'm about 5 feet behind him and a step to the inside of the court. From here I've got a good look through this matchup, and I'm a step toward where the play is going.

When he passes it to the top of the key, my focus goes with the pass. Which turns me away from the passer. Then out of the corner of my eye, I see something. I turn back and it appears that the defender came up to try and deflect the pass, got there late, and probably fouled the kid pretty good. But I didn't see what happened, and I'm not going to guess at it, even though I'm pretty sure I'd have guessed right.

Dang!

My question really is this: What could I have done differently that would have allowed me to see this play?

The only things that come to mind are to work outside of the passer so I can watch the passer and the pass and the receiver. But honestly I don't think I'm going to like the look I get at my new primary matchup, while looking through what is now not even my secondary (as the ball is not likely to swing back to him next).

Perhaps backing out to get a wider view. But turning with the pass is still an issue. So even with a wider view, I'd still have to be outside the passer and looking through.

It's not like this happens all the time. So maybe the best answer is to just accept that this can happen occassionally and we'll never be able to see everything, especially in a 2 man game.

Thoughts?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

BV game tonight. Kind of a small gym, so at times I'm closer to the play than I would be otherwise. And that is part of the problem.

Offense is swinging the ball around the perimeter. At this moment it's at about the 28' mark and about 5 feet from the sideline. I'm trying to watch ahead of the play, see the screens to free the next player to receive the pass, etc. So I'm not entirely focusing on the guy with the ball as he's not closely guarded. Also, I'm about 5 feet behind him and a step to the inside of the court. From here I've got a good look through this matchup, and I'm a step toward where the play is going.

When he passes it to the top of the key, my focus goes with the pass. Which turns me away from the passer. Then out of the corner of my eye, I see something. I turn back and it appears that the defender came up to try and deflect the pass, got there late, and probably fouled the kid pretty good. But I didn't see what happened, and I'm not going to guess at it, even though I'm pretty sure I'd have guessed right.

Dang!

My question really is this: What could I have done differently that would have allowed me to see this play?

The only things that come to mind are to work outside of the passer so I can watch the passer and the pass and the receiver. But honestly I don't think I'm going to like the look I get at my new primary matchup, while looking through what is now not even my secondary (as the ball is not likely to swing back to him next).

Perhaps backing out to get a wider view. But turning with the pass is still an issue. So even with a wider view, I'd still have to be outside the passer and looking through.

It's not like this happens all the time. So maybe the best answer is to just accept that this can happen occassionally and we'll never be able to see everything, especially in a 2 man game.

Thoughts?

BITS:

Just because A1 has released the ball for a pass does not mean that you should immediately follow the ball. Stay with A1 just long enough to make sure he is not the victim of a late foul by B1 and then turn to pick up the ball.

MTD, Sr.

P.S. Good night all. 01:56amEDT here.

[bob jenkins]

What foul? Did the contact affect the pass? Did it affect A1's ability to cut to receive a return pass?

I'm not convinced you mised anything.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

What foul? Did the contact affect the pass? Did it affect A1's ability to cut to receive a return pass?

I'm not convinced you mised anything.

Huh?

He obviously missed *something* since he's not sure of the contact after the pass.

Whether or not the contact was a foul is irrelevant IMO.

MTD gave the right answer, even in his sleep deprived state. Stay with the passer (or shooter) and let your partner take the ball. This is much easier to do in 3 person than in 2 person IMO, but coverage in general is harder with 2 officials.

[Back In The Saddle]

Thank you, Mark. In my games today I made a conscious effort to stay with the passer, at least briefly, and then pick up the pass.

I admit I was dubious when I first read your suggestion. I had visions of looking at the passer while the receiver gets creamed. But in practice there seemed to be sufficient time to pick up the pass before the receiver caught it.

Also, I would think that if I know the receiver is very closely guarded, in that case I'd want to turn much sooner to make sure I don't miss the receiver getting manhandled before the pass arrives. Would you agree or disagree with this?

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Huh?

He obviously missed *something* since he's not sure of the contact after the pass.

Whether or not the contact was a foul is irrelevant IMO.

MTD gave the right answer, even in his sleep deprived state. Stay with the passer (or shooter) and let your partner take the ball. This is much easier to do in 3 person than in 2 person IMO, but coverage in general is harder with 2 officials.

Honest question: Are you saying that while the ball is being passed around the perimeter, the T should consistently stay with the passer while the L picks up the reciever? If so, that's a new concept to me. It would seem to frequently require the L to leave post play to look out of his area.

[26 Year Gap]

You could stand next to the coach. They see everything better from where they stand.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Honest question: Are you saying that while the ball is being passed around the perimeter, the T should consistently stay with the passer while the L picks up the reciever? If so, that's a new concept to me. It would seem to frequently require the L to leave post play to look out of his area.

Good question.

I took it as being a situation where the team is trying to foul. Maybe Dan_ref will clear it up.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

BV game tonight. Kind of a small gym, so at times I'm closer to the play than I would be otherwise. And that is part of the problem.

Offense is swinging the ball around the perimeter. At this moment it's at about the 28' mark and about 5 feet from the sideline. I'm trying to watch ahead of the play, see the screens to free the next player to receive the pass, etc. So I'm not entirely focusing on the guy with the ball as he's not closely guarded. Also, I'm about 5 feet behind him and a step to the inside of the court. From here I've got a good look through this matchup, and I'm a step toward where the play is going.

When he passes it to the top of the key, my focus goes with the pass. Which turns me away from the passer. Then out of the corner of my eye, I see something. I turn back and it appears that the defender came up to try and deflect the pass, got there late, and probably fouled the kid pretty good. But I didn't see what happened, and I'm not going to guess at it, even though I'm pretty sure I'd have guessed right.

Dang!

My question really is this: What could I have done differently that would have allowed me to see this play?

The only things that come to mind are to work outside of the passer so I can watch the passer and the pass and the receiver. But honestly I don't think I'm going to like the look I get at my new primary matchup, while looking through what is now not even my secondary (as the ball is not likely to swing back to him next).

Perhaps backing out to get a wider view. But turning with the pass is still an issue. So even with a wider view, I'd still have to be outside the passer and looking through.

It's not like this happens all the time. So maybe the best answer is to just accept that this can happen occassionally and we'll never be able to see everything, especially in a 2 man game.

Thoughts?

Work for a wider view. 5' feet away is too close for most plays.
You don't have to work outside; you can just work the same angle farther away.

[Nevadaref]

BITS,
You need to use your quality judgment to decide which match-up is more likely to have a contact situation and stay with those players accordingly. Once you have given sufficient attention to that match-up, shift to the next one. Timing is certainly a key element and you must decide how much pressure is being exerted on the passer as well as the receiver and make an appropriate decision about where to place your focus.

It can be tough, especially in 2-man where help on the perimeter from your partner may not be possible, yet I believe that you have enough experience and judgment to know when you need to stay with the passer for an extra second and when you need to quickly shift focus to the receiver.

If the play is a drive down the lane, then we have the classic pass and crash scenario which should be pregamed. If you have discussed this in the lockerroom and decided who will stay with the crash and who will pick up the pass then this should go smoothly. Of course, as you have noted action in which the ball is being reversed around the perimeter can be rather difficult. You have a limited set of eyes out there in stripes and cannot watch everything, so something must be sacrificed. Learning to be selective and picking what to watch when is a skill that separates one level of official from another. I'm sure that you are up to the task.

Excellent question for discussion!

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Honest question: Are you saying that while the ball is being passed around the perimeter, the T should consistently stay with the passer while the L picks up the reciever? If so, that's a new concept to me. It would seem to frequently require the L to leave post play to look out of his area.

Not enough information.

Is the defense laying back in a zone or are they aggresively playing the passer or the ball? Is the ball being passed into an area with the defense is or is it staying on the perimeter away from the defense?

I'm not proposing any new concepts btw.

1. Stay with the passer if the pass comes out of your area, at least for pass/crash coverage as Nevada said

2. Stay with the shooter if he's in your primary.

[Back In The Saddle]

Thanks everybody. Re-thinking how I cover this part of the game has been a good thing. Staying with the passer momentarily was an idea that I hadn't considered before. I think that will become a permanent part of my game.

I agree Mick. 5' seemed, in retrospect, too close. I probably could have taken a step back.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Thanks everybody. Re-thinking how I cover this part of the game has been a good thing. Staying with the passer momentarily was an idea that I hadn't considered before. I think that will become a permanent part of my game.

I agree Mick. 5' seemed, in retrospect, too close. I probably could have taken a step back.

Get 12' away to see the entire play, 5 steps.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by mick

Get 12' away to see the entire play, 5 steps.

Normally I'm about that far away. But on the smaller court, with the way they were spread, I'd have been in backcourt. But probably still a better answer.

[Mwanr1]

I agree with both Dan and Neveda.

Game awareness is the key. You stated that the defense isn't putting pressure on the ball handler, that allows you to "cheat" off your primary matchup (the ball handler) to look off-ball. That's fine IMO but if you are going to ref off-ball, you still need to be aware of your primary. Another thought is that after a couple of plays, you can easily identify whether you need to look off-ball or not.

I suggest opening up your angle and officiate both match-ups. Find a spot that allows you to officiate your primary and off-ball. If the ball is 5 feet away from the sideline, step on to the court (maybe two-three steps before the lane line extended) and referee the primary from inside out.
Be real careful as if the off-ball defender steps into the passing lane and deflect the pass, the players might run straight into you as you're in the middle of the court.

In two-person game, you can't always referee the entire coverage area. Like Neveda said, you need to make good judgment of which match-up to officiate.