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Old Thu Apr 10, 2008, 06:12pm
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Parker's LONG sleeve undershirt in the Final Four

During the Final Four, Candace Parker of Tennessee wore a white, LONG sleeve undershirt under her white team jersey due to a shoulder injury. We noticed it and made a couple of comments in the chatroom, but nothing substantive.

I did some checking into this and found that her undershirt should have been ruled illegal and that she should not have been allowed to participate while wearing it, but it seems that an exception can be made for a star player at the Final Four. Either the officials didn't know the rule or chose not to enforce it. Which makes one ask why even bother having such a rule in the book and why should the committee waste its time and effort wording such a change/clarification in the previous season?

There was a rule change for the 2006-07 season that prohibited this attire. Here is the text of the rule from that season as well as the current text from the 2007-08 NCAA rules book.

2006-07

Old Rule 3-5.13 and .14, 3-4.14, new page 72. Shirt sleeves may not extend below the elbow. Compression pants may not extend below the game pants.

Rule 3, Section 5
Art. 13.
An undershirt is considered to be part of the game jersey and must
be a color similar to that of the game jersey. In addition, the sleeves and
neckline of undershirts shall be unaltered. (e.g., no cut-off sleeves or cut
necklines) Both sleeves shall be of the same length and not extend beyond the elbows. No logos, decorations, trim, commemorative patches, lettering or numbering may be used on an undershirt. An illegal undershirt shall not be worn.
A.R. 63. May a player remain in the game after being assessed an indirect technical foul for wearing an illegal undershirt or undergarment? RULING: Similar to the rule regarding jewelry, illegal undershirts or undergarments shall not be worn. The player shall leave the game and remove the illegal apparel; however, no technical foul shall be assessed.

2007-08

Rule 3, Section 5
Art. 11.
An undershirt is considered to be part of the game jersey and must be a color similar to that of the game jersey. In addition, the sleeves and neckline of undershirts shall be unaltered. (e.g., no cut-off sleeves or cut necklines) Both sleeves shall be of the same length and not extend beyond the elbows. No logos, decorations, trim, commemorative patches, lettering or numbering may be used on an undershirt. An illegal undershirt shall not be worn.
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Old Thu Apr 10, 2008, 06:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
During the Final Four, Candace Parker of Tennessee wore a white, LONG sleeve undershirt under her white team jersey due to a shoulder injury. We noticed it and made a couple of comments in the chatroom, but nothing substantive.

I did some checking into this and found that her undershirt should have been ruled illegal and that she should not have been allowed to participate while wearing it, but it seems that an exception can be made for a star player at the Final Four. Either the officials didn't know the rule or chose not to enforce it. Which makes one ask why even bother having such a rule in the book and why should the committee waste its time and effort wording such a change/clarification in the previous season?

There was a rule change for the 2006-07 season that prohibited this attire. Here is the text of the rule from that season as well as the current text from the 2007-08 NCAA rules book.

2006-07

Old Rule 3-5.13 and .14, 3-4.14, new page 72. Shirt sleeves may not extend below the elbow. Compression pants may not extend below the game pants.

Rule 3, Section 5
Art. 13.
An undershirt is considered to be part of the game jersey and must
be a color similar to that of the game jersey. In addition, the sleeves and
neckline of undershirts shall be unaltered. (e.g., no cut-off sleeves or cut
necklines) Both sleeves shall be of the same length and not extend beyond the elbows. No logos, decorations, trim, commemorative patches, lettering or numbering may be used on an undershirt. An illegal undershirt shall not be worn.
A.R. 63. May a player remain in the game after being assessed an indirect technical foul for wearing an illegal undershirt or undergarment? RULING: Similar to the rule regarding jewelry, illegal undershirts or undergarments shall not be worn. The player shall leave the game and remove the illegal apparel; however, no technical foul shall be assessed.

2007-08

Rule 3, Section 5
Art. 11.
An undershirt is considered to be part of the game jersey and must be a color similar to that of the game jersey. In addition, the sleeves and neckline of undershirts shall be unaltered. (e.g., no cut-off sleeves or cut necklines) Both sleeves shall be of the same length and not extend beyond the elbows. No logos, decorations, trim, commemorative patches, lettering or numbering may be used on an undershirt. An illegal undershirt shall not be worn.

I thought the same thing. It did look odd. For gamesmanship, if I was Stanford, I'd have a player wear the same.

Clarence
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Old Thu Apr 10, 2008, 07:40pm
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And here I thought it was only the NFHS that had such an unending fascination for fashion police stuff. Why should anybody really care if a player wants to wear a long sleeved undershirt?
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Old Thu Apr 10, 2008, 07:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msavakinas
i don't claim to follow women's basketball, but maybe she got it approved because of her shoulder being hurt like it was?? I dunno how it would help but just a thought.
You just made my point. If there was some sort of exemption granted/decision made to set aside this VERY CLEARLY STATED rule for this particular player, then there is no reason to even bother having the rule in the first place.
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Old Thu Apr 10, 2008, 07:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref
You just made my point. If there was some sort of exemption granted/decision made to set aside this VERY CLEARLY STATED rule for this particular player, then there is no reason to even bother having the rule in the first place.
More or less the same thing Bob Knight recently said about "the walking rule."
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Old Thu Apr 10, 2008, 08:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref
More or less the same thing Bob Knight recently said about "the walking rule."
Yep, the sentiment is that there has to be some reasonable expectation that what is written in the rules will actually be called. Unless this is the way it is actually done in practice, then any decision of an official becomes capricious and open to question. Why call that, but not this? Why now, but not then? Why against this team, but not that one. The coaches and players are simply put at a loss and left wondering.

Hence the recent and heavy emphasis from the administrations of the NBA, the NCAA, and the NFHS to call the rules as written and NOT inject personal philosophies into the game.
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Old Thu Apr 10, 2008, 09:43pm
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I'm not going to look it up or post it but there's an ncaa ruling/bulletin that states the dress rules that you so kindly posted in mulit-font/multi-color are unenforceable if there's a medical condition that applies.

So...if the coach said yeah, there's a medical reason that she needs to wear whatever you posted in bold red letter large font then yeah, it's legal.
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Old Thu Apr 10, 2008, 09:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
I'm not going to look it up or post it but there's an ncaa ruling/bulletin that states the dress rules that you so kindly posted in mulit-font/multi-color are unenforceable if there's a medical condition that applies.

So...if the coach said yeah, there's a medical reason that she needs to wear whatever you posted in bold red letter large font then yeah, it's legal.
It must not have been a problem. She was not wearing this for cosmetic reasons. She did separate her shoulder twice during the tournament.

Peace
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Old Thu Apr 10, 2008, 09:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
It must not have been a problem. She was not wearing this for cosmetic reasons. She did separate her shoulder twice during the tournament.

Peace
I'm guessing you're right, it was not a problem.

Not everyone agrees with us. :shrug:
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Old Thu Apr 10, 2008, 10:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
I'm not going to look it up or post it but there's an ncaa ruling/bulletin that states the dress rules that you so kindly posted in mulit-font/multi-color are unenforceable if there's a medical condition that applies.

So...if the coach said yeah, there's a medical reason that she needs to wear whatever you posted in bold red letter large font then yeah, it's legal.
Dan.......I'm thinking that this rule is in place if they feel they need to enforce it for the right reason, yet when someone such as Parker needs an exception due to an injury it's allowable in the eyes of the officials. I don't follow though how the long sleeve would help her shoulder. It appeared to be somewhat loose fitting.

Could she be allowed to be wrapped like a mummy?

It did look odd, as I've never seen long sleeves before.

Last edited by fullor30; Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 10:24pm.
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Old Thu Apr 10, 2008, 10:10pm
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I agree that it was not a problem, but as far as the medical issue, could wearing long sleeves really have an impact on the shoulder? If anything, one could imagine a defender's hand inadvertently entering the sleeve and possibly causing further damage.
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Old Thu Apr 10, 2008, 10:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fullor30
Dan.......I'm thinking that this rule is in place if they feel they need to enforce it for the right reason, yet when someone such as Parker needs an exception due to an injury it's allowable in the eyes of the officials.

Could she be wrapped like a mummy? It did look odd, as I've never seen long sleeves.
I've been told if a player is wearing an illegal arm sleeve or undergarment because of a medical reason then we are to leave it alone. Has nothing to do with Candace Parker. Just ask the coach & take his word for it.
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Old Thu Apr 10, 2008, 10:28pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
I've been told if a player is wearing an illegal arm sleeve or undergarment because of a medical reason then we are to leave it alone. Has nothing to do with Candace Parker. Just ask the coach & take his word for it.
I meant it objectively. I tend to agree with you, if that's OK with Nevada.
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Old Thu Apr 10, 2008, 10:28pm
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When watching, I just assumed the rule was the same as for high school.
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Old Thu Apr 10, 2008, 10:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fullor30
I meant it objectively. I tend to agree with you, if that's OK with Nevada.
Only time will tell if he'll start calling you a poopy head or not.

If he does then feel free to join my club.
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