Sportsmanship article in SI

[fullor30]

[][/I]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

I don't think rocky's an Illinois grad; he didn't make the height requirement.

But I am, so maybe I'll comment. If he didn't want the attention, why did he have a press conference to announce where he was going to school? How many vet med or engineering students do you see have press conferences to announce which college they will attend? If he just wanted to play basketball without the attention, and stay "close to home", why didn't he go to Southern IN, or Oakland City, both Div. II schools in Indiana. Why did he choose to go to IU? Do think it might be for the national attention? Stylin' and preening on the court aren't the only ways to gather attention. That said, I've been impressed with his attitude on the court - I wish all athletes would follow his example of just playing ball and acting like he's "done it before" when he makes a good play.

I did find it interesting that SI chose to focus on this one particular game at Illinois. I was not at that particular game, but have spoken to a couple of people that were there. Those people were surprised at the level of noise and anticipation at that game. Having seen many games over the years in the Assembly Hall, my usual complaint of Illinois fans is they are pretty laid-back and not loud enough. This game was obviously different, given the circumstances surrounding Gordon and his changing his mind. Couple that with the fact that it was Indiana, and I'm not surprised it ratcheted up the intensity. If Gordon would've chosen Wisconsin or Ohio State, I don't think it would've been as intense. I'm also surprised at the mention of the usher not doing anything about a rowdy, cup-throwing fan. I've seen many people escorted out over the years, so I have no doubt they would've done the same here. I wonder if there's more to this story? I would say that that particular game was not representative of all Illinois games. I would even say it is not representative of past IL/IN games.

Death threats? Whoever does that should serve jail time. Obcenities? Easy exit off the premises, no matter what the level. Have standards deteriorated over the past several years? Yep. Should we do something to change it? Absolutely.

Notice there was no mention about the same attitudes towards officials.

If he didn't want the attention, why did he have a press conference to announce where he was going to school? How many vet med or engineering students do you see have press conferences to announce which college they will attend? If he just wanted to play basketball without the attention, and stay "close to home", why didn't he go to Southern IN, or Oakland City, both Div. II schools in Indiana. Why did he choose to go to IU? Do think it might be for the national attention?
C'mon....Jon Scheyer's Duke announcement was carried live in Chicago......it was breaking news, All the biggies do that I, know you're going to whine about that one too. Eighteen year old kids don't schedule news conferences, their handlers do.

Gordon was arguably in the top five as far as recruits go and for a top recruit to go to a storied basketball school IN HIS OWN STATE is big news

When people pay big bucks to watch an engineering student shake and bake with his slide rule, you'll have a press conference for them. Bad analogy.

I'm a Chicago guy and an Illinois fan by the way. I don't condemn Illinois fans, that stuff seems to happen everywhere.

Southern Indiana or Oakland city may be where Weber winds up!

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Here is where you lost me. I do not know any student that is going to be and engineer that the media follows them around to find out what school they are going to in the summer. I also do not know the average student that goes to any university that is shown on national TV during their HS years doing anything unless they commit a crime; no one even knows who they are. There are kids right now you can read about all over the internet that people know more about them then some student that is not an athlete and no one cares what school they are going to except their family. Not the same issue. I am sorry, but he did not go to Illinois. That does not mean his family should be treated a certain way because fans of Illini do not like the kid.

I was responding to fullor's comment about Gordon not wanting attention. If he and his family truly did not want attention, they would not have called a news conference to sign the letter of intent. They would not have spoken to spoken to the media at all. If he truly did not want attention, he would've attended a less-visible school. So, in that respect, I agree with rocky - if you want the attention, you have to be able to take the boos with the cheers.

Absolutely he and his family should never be subjected to obcenities and things thrown at them. The people that did that were idiots. Those were not the average Illinois fans that I know. The ones I know just booed. Should Gordon and his family not expect to get booed, given the circumstances and how they played out? Nope; too bad for them they don't get love everywhere they go. But, you're right in that there is a line that should never be crossed.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

I was responding to fullor's comment about Gordon not wanting attention. If he and his family truly did not want attention, they would not have called a news conference to sign the letter of intent. They would not have spoken to spoken to the media at all. If he truly did not want attention, he would've attended a less-visible school. So, in that respect, I agree with rocky - if you want the attention, you have to be able to take the boos with the cheers.

Sometimes you call a press conference to set the record straight. If he had announced to one paper, the phone might have never stopped ringing for further clarification. Press conferences are designed to give all forms of media one opportunity to ask questions instead of doing the same thing over a period of time. That is why when the police want to answer questions about a case, they hold a press conference. It is a lot easier to deal with the media that way.

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Absolutely he and his family should never be subjected to obcenities and things thrown at them. The people that did that were idiots. Those were not the average Illinois fans that I know. The ones I know just booed. Should Gordon and his family not expect to get booed, given the circumstances and how they played out? Nope; too bad for them they don't get love everywhere they go. But, you're right in that there is a line that should never be crossed.

I do not care if they were the average fan or not. Your coach set a tone. Instead of just moving on, Weber made it sound like in the media as if the kid betrayed him. If Weber took some leadership and said the right things, you might not have this kind of resentment. Weber has already accepted the commitments from kids that are not even sophomores and what is he going to do if they decide to change their minds? Is he going to act the same way?

Peace

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by fullor30

C'mon....Jon Scheyer's Duke announcement was carried live in Chicago......it was breaking news. I, know you're going to whine about that one too. Eighteen year old kids don't schedule news conferences, their handlers do and Gordon was arguably in the top five as far as recruits go.

I'm not whining about the news conferences - that's part of the way things work. I'm only saying if you don't really want the attention, then don't have news conferences and handlers. If that's what you want, you have to be able to accept the negative publicity with the the positives.

Originally Posted by fullor30

When people pay big bucks to watch an egineering student shake and bake with his slide rule, you'll have a press conference for them. Bad analogy.

There are plenty of athletes that sign without the news conferences, in the privacy of their own home or HS coach's office. There are plenty more students that are not athletes that choose their school without a handler. I still think it's a great analogy.

Geeze, how old are you?! Does anyone in school now know what a slide rule is? Perhaps a press conference is needed to remind people what one looks like?

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Did I say it warranted the kind of crap he got at that game? Nope, sure didn't...try reading carefully next time.

Just a question - when he finally got around to actually making up his mind which school he would got to, did his family call the media and make sure they were there when he signed his LOI??? Bet they did...bet they wanted the attention...

Like I said, the examples cited in the article are way off-base and shouldn't be allowed to continue (again, read carefully next time). But I don't have a lot of sympathy when players and their families want and demand all kinds of positive attention and then cry when there is negative attention that comes their way.

Illini grad? That's a stupid question...and in case you can't figure out the answer from that comment, it would be no. Never even been to Illinois. Have been to Indiana, and hope I never have to go back.

[I]but come on, those players wanted attention in the first place, so now they can deal with some of this stuff. Life ain't all a bed of roses.[/I]

Did I say it warranted the kind of crap he got at that game? Nope, sure didn't...try reading carefully next time.

Hmmmm.............make up your mind, seems like you feel like they deserve it.


when he finally got around to actually making up his mind which school he would got to, did his family call the media and make sure they were there when he signed his LOI??? Bet they did...bet they wanted the attention...

I don't bet and I don't guess...........not good for an official


Now suddenly it's not Eric Gordon, it's his family wanted the attention(which may very well be) but the discussion is about Eric.

As I posted before all the top 5 or so recruits in the country have some sort of press conference.

It's news

What the heck, here we are arguing about him a year later......

I'm having a news conference in August to announce my schedule for 2008/2009.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by co2ice

The confrence can make a stand also. The WAC this year banned the cheer "You Suck" from all schools that belong to the confrence. The confrence said a Technical foul would be assessed to any home team chanting it. But this death threat thing is out of control. I'm with Mark, I may not go back.

Really??? Nevada is in the WAC and I haven't heard that. What you have written is likely true, but my point is that it is NOT well-publicized to those who attend the games.

The WAC does have a conference sportsmanship code under which NV coach Mark Fox was disciplined (well not really) for his postgame behavior with official Bill Gracey last season.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fullor30

What the heck, here we are arguing about him a year later......

I'm having a news conference in August to announce my schedule for 2008/2009.

The difference is no one would come and no one would care. I have not read about your schedule anywhere in any publication. Bhuck Elics get more pub about his schedule than you, me or anyone else working HS ball.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I'll just throw this out there.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...303/index.html

Sad how abusive "cheering" has become. If any institution actually cared about sportsmanship from its fans, it would actually enforce that lame "sportsmanship statement" that so many of them read before each game. You want to show you're serious about it? Start throwing people out without refunds. But nobody wants to do that at any level.

After reading this, does anyone think that Love will return to UCLA for next season? Despite the current denials of early entry into the draft, I'm convinced that he is leaving. Not putting up with this or having his family deal with this may well be a large factor in the decision.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

I'm not whining about the news conferences - that's part of the way things work. I'm only saying if you don't really want the attention, then don't have news conferences and handlers. If that's what you want, you have to be able to accept the negative publicity with the the positives.


There are plenty of athletes that sign without the news conferences, in the privacy of their own home or HS coach's office. There are plenty more students that are not athletes that choose their school without a handler. I still think it's a great analogy.

Geeze, how old are you?! Does anyone in school now know what a slide rule is? Perhaps a press conference is needed to remind people what one looks like?

Ok, an abacus then?..........that's how much I know about engineering.

Sure, plenty of athletes just sign but the top 3-5 are in rare air, seperated from the herd, distanced from the pack. Additionally they all have 'handlers'.

Right or wrong there are only so many that have a vertical leap of 40' and are gifted athletically, those few the sport crazed public are interested in, not vet students. But I think you know that.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Sometimes you call a press conference to set the record straight. It is a lot easier to deal with the media that way.

If you want the attention and want to deal with the media, sure.

If you don't want the attention, you don't deal with the media at all.

You cannot have it both ways.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not care if they were the average fan or not. Your coach set a tone. Instead of just moving on, Weber made it sound like in the media as if the kid betrayed him.

But, that's exactly what happened. Gordon set the tone. He announced his intention (in the media, if I'm not mistaken), then reneged later. That's certainly not "against the law"; he had a right to do that. But he shouldn't expect everyone would be happy with that decision. Weber based his plans on that commitment, then had to change the plans because Gordon changed his mind. Should Weber lie to the media about that?

We'll just have to disagree on this one. I wonder though - would you disagree as strongly if Gordon had originally committed to Michigan?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

If you want the attention and want to deal with the media, sure.

If you don't want the attention, you don't deal with the media at all.

You cannot have it both ways.

Wanting attention or not wanting attention has nothing to do with people throwing stuff at your family before, during or after the game. I do not care if they held 100 press conferences every time they went to the bathroom or decided to get something to eat. Not a reason to act unsportsmanlike. Show some class.

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

But, that's exactly what happened. Gordon set the tone. He announced his intention (in the media, if I'm not mistaken), then reneged later. That's certainly not "against the law"; he had a right to do that. But he shouldn't expect everyone would be happy with that decision. Weber based his plans on that commitment, then had to change the plans because Gordon changed his mind. Should Weber lie to the media about that?

We'll just have to disagree on this one. I wonder though - would you disagree as strongly if Gordon had originally committed to Michigan?

I sure would feel differently. And not only would I feel differently, it has happen. There was a kid that was to go to Michigan and the minute the coach was fired, he went to Kentucky. If they ever played I would not hold up signs or throw things to demean the kid in any way. The #1 QB in the nation went to Ohio State instead of Michigan. Of course I will cheer against him, but I would not call him names or mistreat his family. I believe that when these kids sign on the dotted line, what they say means nothing. I guess if someone says they are going to buy a house and choose not to sign the papers on the contract, you think those people should be mistreated too. There is more to life than winning or losing a game.

Peace

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by fullor30

[
Hmmmm.............make up your mind, seems like you feel like they deserve it.
.

You know, there have been times when reading your posts where I have thought "this person just doesn't get it."

Now I know for sure that you don't get it.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Wanting attention or not wanting attention has nothing to do with people throwing stuff at your family before, during or after the game. I do not care if they held 100 press conferences every time they went to the bathroom or decided to get something to eat. Not a reason to act unsportsmanlike. Show some class.

Umm...did you miss the part where I whole-heartedly agreed with this?

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I sure would feel differently. The #1 QB in the nation went to Ohio State instead of Michigan. Of course I will cheer against him

We agree. That's what most Illinois fans were doing with Gordon at that game.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

but I would not call him names or mistreat his family.

We agree again. That's what a few idiots were doing, not the vast majority of the fans.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I believe that when these kids sign on the dotted line, what they say means nothing.

Cool, we still agree.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I guess if someone says they are going to buy a house and choose not to sign the papers on the contract, you think those people should be mistreated too.

Define, "mistreated". Oral contracts are, in general, just as binding as written contracts. They are, of course, harder to enforce because they are harder to prove. But, if I hold a press conference saying I'll sign the contract to buy the house, you can probably be sure I'll be "mistreated" by the sellers' attorney.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Wanting attention or not wanting attention has nothing to do with people throwing stuff at your family before, during or after the game. I do not care if they held 100 press conferences every time they went to the bathroom or decided to get something to eat. Not a reason to act unsportsmanlike. Show some class.



I sure would feel differently. And not only would I feel differently, it has happen. There was a kid that was to go to Michigan and the minute the coach was fired, he went to Kentucky. If they ever played I would not hold up signs or throw things to demean the kid in any way. The #1 QB in the nation went to Ohio State instead of Michigan. Of course I will cheer against him, but I would not call him names or mistreat his family. I believe that when these kids sign on the dotted line, what they say means nothing. I guess if someone says they are going to buy a house and choose not to sign the papers on the contract, you think those people should be mistreated too. There is more to life than winning or losing a game.

Peace

But you will probably boo more against a player who first says he will go to Michigan and then changes that later - right? Especially if that player makes a big show out of it and has a big media circus surrounding the whole changing and signing thing, than if the kid just quietly signed with Ohio State or Purdue or whoever...

And that's my point. When these "big name" athletes and their families do all this media-grabbing, they have to expect that there will be the negative sides to that also.

Just to be clear, since we seem to have some people on this thread who didn't do so well in their reading comprehension classes, the idiots who were talked about in the article should be dealt with. But the booing and catcalls should be expected by the people who put themselves out there.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

You know, there have been times when reading your posts where I have thought "this person just doesn't get it."

Now I know for sure that you don't get it.

Great post!