Throw-in spot

[just another ref]

Question raised in another thread:

What if the administrating official on a throw in tells the player he can run the end line when in fact it is a spot throw in. After putting the ball at the throwers disposal, he runs the end line, another official from 20 ft away calls the violation. What now?

Good question. I have an opinion, but I'll save it until I hear others.

[w_sohl]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Question raised in another thread:

What if the administrating official on a throw in tells the player he can run the end line when in fact it is a spot throw in. After putting the ball at the throwers disposal, he runs the end line, another official from 20 ft away calls the violation. What now?

Good question. I have an opinion, but I'll save it until I hear others.

and take the blame here. Stop play, it already has, correct the sitch.

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Question raised in another thread:

What if the administrating official on a throw in tells the player he can run the end line when in fact it is a spot throw in. After putting the ball at the throwers disposal, he runs the end line, another official from 20 ft away calls the violation. What now?

Good question. I have an opinion, but I'll save it until I hear others.

Why would a partner be calling my line? That is the question.
I always tell but also wave my hand to show the player they can run. If they are on the spot I tell and point. That way my partners can see it and so can the tape.

[grunewar]

Concur. Ref provided bad info. Meet, discuss. Award the ball to the team again with a spot throw in. Shouldn't penalize the team.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Ref provided bad info. Meet, discuss. Award the ball to the team again with a spot throw in. Shouldn't penalize the team.

"Ref provided bad info": Absolutely true.

"Meet, discuss": Proper mechanics tell us that the nonadministering official shouldn't be making this call, but he, or she, did, so let's move forward.

"Award the ball to the team again with a spot throw in": I'm going to need a rule book, or case book, citation for this part of the post. Throwin player violated by moving away from the designated spot on a designated throwin. This is not one of the correctable errors listed. One thing that I have learned from this Forum, is that there are seldom, if ever, do-overs in NFHS basketball.

"Shouldn't penalize the team": We shouldn't, but, by rule, I don't think we have any other choice in this situation.

This could have been avoided by good mechanics. During timeouts, officials on my local board are encouraged to communicate with each other, through the use of signals, the direction of the throwin, the place where the throwin will be administered, and whether it's a designated spot, or the player can run the endline. This would have been a good time for the nonadmisitering official to clear up a preventable mistake with the administering official. As ChrisSportsFan mentioned, after the time out, the administering official is encouraged to signal designated spot, or signal run the endline. If the nonadministering official had observed a mistake in this signal, he, or she, could, I believe, properly, blow the whistle to stop the administration of the throwin, before the ball is handed, or tossed, to the player, and discuss a possible mistake by the administering official with that official.

[w_sohl]

I know this isn't a correctable error, however if we use common sense here you will readminister.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by w_sohl

I know this isn't a correctable error, however if we use common sense here you will readminister.

I wish the correctable error rule gave us a little more latitude, but it doesn't. Let's say, on a throwin, the administering official hands the ball incorrectly to A1. After A1 inbounds the ball to A-2 who catches the throwin pass, the administering official's partner, or the administering official himself, or herself, decides that a mistake has been made, and that B should have gotten the throwin. The whistle is blown immediately so that no time comes off the clock. I can't find anything in the rulebook, casebook, or any posts on this Forum by any reputable member who is an official, that would allow us to readminister the ball to B for a new throwin. Same thing with a mistake on an alternating possession throwin. How many times have we seen the joke "You'll get two out of the next three" on this Forum.

Many NFHS rules seem to disregard common sense. The Spirit And Intent Of The Rules, Rule 2-3-1, and Rule 2-10, give us some discretion, but, in my opinion, not enough to re-do the throwin in the original post.

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Question raised in another thread:

What if the administrating official on a throw in tells the player he can run the end line when in fact it is a spot throw in. After putting the ball at the throwers disposal, he runs the end line, another official from 20 ft away calls the violation. What now?

Good question. I have an opinion, but I'll save it until I hear others.

This is not a correctable error. It's an officials mistake. There is no rule provision that I know of that allows you to go back and rectify an official's mistake. 9-2-1 is the penalty.

[just another ref]

4-42-6: The throw-in spot is..............established by the official prior to putting the ball at the thrower's disposal.


The official in this case did not designate a spot, but rather told the player he could run the end line. If there is no designated spot, there can be no violation. The administrating official gives this information to his nitwit partner, who hopefully will change his call. Either way, the partner deserves to be dragged down the top of the levee behind a Ford Courier for making this call.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

4-42-6: The throw-in spot is..............established by the official prior to putting the ball at the thrower's disposal.

Good point. I think that, what you're trying to say, is that once the official establishes the spot, let's say a "run the endline" spot, even if it's after a three second violation, it is no longer a mistake if the throwin player runs the endline.

However, I still think that in the original post, once the nonadministering official, using, in my opinion, poor mechanics, calls the violation, it's a violation, and the other team will get the ball.

Nice try. You almost won me over to your side.

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

4-42-6: The throw-in spot is..............established by the official prior to putting the ball at the thrower's disposal.


The official in this case did not designate a spot, but rather told the player he could run the end line. If there is no designated spot, there can be no violation. The administrating official gives this information to his nitwit partner, who hopefully will change his call. Either way, the partner deserves to be dragged down the top of the levee behind a Ford Courier for making this call.

4-42-6 This is a good augment/opinion, in the end I believe righteous. Another stitch: What if, after a timeout, the administrating official neglects to instruct the thrower, then he/she proceeds to run the end line, would you call the violation? What if your knuckle headed partner runs over to call it from 50ft away to call it?
I think you would have to.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

4-42-6 This is a good augment/opinion, in the end I believe righteous. Another stitch: What if, after a timeout, the administrating official neglects to instruct the thrower, then he/she proceeds to run the end line, would you call the violation? What if your knuckle headed partner runs over to call it from 50ft away to call it?
I think you would have to.

I can quote nothing which backs this up, but I think it is ultimately the responsibility of the thrower to know whether it is a spot throw-in or not. If it is a spot throw-in, the official gives no instructions, and the thrower moves, you call the violation.

[Reffing Rev.]

My partner had an inadvertant whistle...POI, which by the way I meant to say was a designated spot...I hate it when my partner does that...

[Nevadaref]

Award 2 shots and the ball at the division line.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Award 2 shots and the ball at the division line.

T on the calling official? Or the one who provided erroneous information? Does any member of the crew get to take the free throws? Who administers the free throws?