UNC/Kansas

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I get it.

1) Just because somebody says something, that doesn't make it true.
2) Just because somebody says something, that does make it true.

Interesting argument you're making to support your POV......

Just saying.......

You couldn't be further from the truth. Nate said:

You don't hear Beasley coach talking about his work ethic.

I was simply responding that yes, in fact, Beasley's coach does talk about his work ethic, and in a positive way at that.

Doesn't make the coach's statement true or false, but it certainly makes Nate's statement false.

Would I try to make the arguement that Beasley works as hard as Hansbrough? Nope. But he may. He didn't get as good as he is by accident, so he's obviously worked hard on his game.

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

You couldn't be further from the truth. Nate said:

I was simply responding that yes, in fact, Beasley's coach does talk about his work ethic, and in a positive way at that.

Doesn't make the coach's statement true or false, but it certainly makes Nate's statement false.

Would I try to make the arguement that Beasley works as hard as Hansbrough? Nope. But he may. He didn't get as good as he is by accident, so he's obviously worked hard on his game.

Obviously Beasley has worked on his game. When did that become the question?? I'd say there's probabaly a really good reason that Beasley ended up at K-State and not Kansas, Duke, UNC, Texas, UCLA, Memphis, ...the traditional powers.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops

Obviously Beasley has worked on his game. When did that become the question?? I'd say there's probabaly a really good reason that Beasley ended up at K-State and not Kansas, Duke, UNC, Texas, UCLA, Memphis, ...the traditional powers.

Yes, there is a good reason: his AAU coach was hired as an assistant at Charlotte, and Beasley committed to Charlotte. Then his AAU coach was hired away from Charlotte by Kansas State, and Beasley committed (and signed) with Kansas State.

Suggesting that KU, Duke, UNC, Texas, UCLA and Memphis wouldn't have wanted Beasley is ridiculous.

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Yes, there is a good reason: his AAU coach was hired as an assistant at Charlotte, and Beasley committed to Charlotte. Then his AAU coach was hired away from Charlotte by Kansas State, and Beasley committed (and signed) with Kansas State.

Suggesting that KU, Duke, UNC, Texas, UCLA and Memphis wouldn't have wanted Beasley is ridiculous.

Winning must not have played a factor in his decision. I'm sure that's not all there is to it.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops

Winning must not have played a factor in his decision. I'm sure that's not all there is to it.

Believe what you want. He calls the coach his brother, they are so close. He played for him for years before he was hired by Charlotte, and then Beasley said he wanted to play for him in college.

This has officially descended into fan-boy territory for me, so I should probably stop, but Beasley has by all accounts at K-State been an excellent person, a great teammate, and a very good student. I happen to believe he was also the best individual performer in college basketball this year, but that's certainly not all there is to the POY Award, which is why I think Hansbrough is a very deserving recipient.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops

Obviously Beasley has worked on his game. When did that become the question?? I'd say there's probabaly a really good reason that Beasley ended up at K-State and not Kansas, Duke, UNC, Texas, UCLA, Memphis, ...the traditional powers.

There are a lot of great "college" players who don't end up at those schools. Chris Bosh went to Georgia Tech and Chris Paul went to Wake Forest. You saying those 2 players didn't go to the "traditional" powers because they didn't work hard? Gonzaga has produced 3 players (Stockton, Nash, Morrison) who are considered hard workers. Why didn't they go to UNLV or UCLA, because of their work ethics??

And Memphis is not a traditional power (just to quibble), they are a power every 10 years of so. Beasley going to K-State is akin to Penny Hardaway going to Memphis St.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

There are a lot of great "college" players who don't end up at those schools. Chris Bosh went to Georgia Tech and Chris Paul went to Wake Forest. You saying those 2 players didn't go to the "traditional" powers because they didn't work hard? Gonzaga has produced 3 players (Stockton, Nash, Morrison) who are considered hard workers. Why didn't they go to UNLV or UCLA, because of their work ethics??

Not that it really detracts from your point, but Nash didn't go to Gonzaga. He went to Santa Clara.

[tomegun]

I think Beasley is a great talent. I've officiated him several times, seen how he interacts with his teammates and know about his situation in high school.

Uh...there is no way he would have ever went to any of those other schools. Let's just say the only way I would believe it is if I was in the room when he took the SAT. Also, his going to K-state did have a lot to do with the assistant coach.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Uh...there is no way he would have ever went to any of those other schools. Let's just say the only way I would believe it is if I was in the room when he took the SAT.

I don't understand this statement, tomegun. K-State's admission standards are equal to KU's, unless I'm misunderstanding your point.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

I don't understand this statement, tomegun. K-State's admission standards are equal to KU's, unless I'm misunderstanding your point.

I think he's implying that Beasley's taking of the SAT was a team effort.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Not that it really detracts from your point, but Nash didn't go to Gonzaga. He went to Santa Clara.

Duuuhhh....at least they're in the same conference.

And Nate, you've totally meandered away from you main point, which was work ethic towards basketball. You implied the reason Beasley didn't go to a "traditional" power was he work ethic. Now you switch mid-stream and talk about academics. Two totally differently subjects.

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Duuuhhh....at least they're in the same conference.

And Nate, you've totally meandered away from you main point, which was work ethic towards basketball. You implied the reason Beasley didn't go to a "traditional" power was he work ethic. Now you switch mid-stream and talk about academics. Two totally differently subjects.

Acutally my point was that their aren't many that work as hard as Hans. Beasley is a tremendous TALENT. JW made the initial comment that Tyler's work ethic was over-hyped. I just stated that I don't think so. Then we move to Beasley's working hard in PRACTICE, something ALL players do. Beasley has a history. I'm chosing not to go into it however. The assistant coach isn't the only reason he ended up at K-State. Some school have higher standards than others. Case in point is UNC...the guard a few year ago...Jameson Curry. Anyway, he is the all time leading scorer in North Carolina high school history. Roy signed him, 2 months later he was caught with marijuana at school and he land at Oklahoma St. Duke never attempted to recuit him.

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

There are a lot of great "college" players who don't end up at those schools. Chris Bosh went to Georgia Tech and Chris Paul went to Wake Forest. You saying those 2 players didn't go to the "traditional" powers because they didn't work hard? Gonzaga has produced 3 players (Stockton, Nash, Morrison) who are considered hard workers. Why didn't they go to UNLV or UCLA, because of their work ethics??

And Memphis is not a traditional power (just to quibble), they are a power every 10 years of so. Beasley going to K-State is akin to Penny Hardaway going to Memphis St.

I didn't want to write a disertation about powerhouse NCAA schools, but GT and WF surely are. I have a hard time believing that anyone, no matter how long the list could be, would include Kansas St.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops

I didn't want to write a disertation about powerhouse NCAA schools, but GT and WF surely are. I have a hard time believing that anyone, no matter how long the list could be, would include Kansas St.

Ever hear of Rolando Blackman, Bob Boozer, Mitch Richmond? Tradition didn't start 10 years ago. Kansas State has a rich history of basketball
.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops

I didn't want to write a disertation about powerhouse NCAA schools, but GT and WF surely are. I have a hard time believing that anyone, no matter how long the list could be, would include Kansas St.

This does indeed show your age. And this is firmly in fan-boy territory for me, so I'll admit that up front.

I'll concede no national titles for K-State, and won't attempt to stand the program up against UNC or KU or Indiana or UCLA. That would be foolish.

But four Final Fours, 12 Elite Eight appearances, and 16 Sweet 16s, is pretty formidable. The last 20 years have not been kind to Kansas State. But at the end of the regular season in 1988, Kansas State's "history" was pretty much equal to KU's in terms of conference championships, final fours, NCAA tourney appearances, etc, short of KU at that time having one national title. Obviously, KU went on an incredible run over the last 20 years, while K-State slipped into irrelevance.

In 2005, Street and Smith put out its Top 100 Basketball Programs list. Kansas State was 22nd. Hardly an "also-ran". One spot behind Georgetown, one spot ahead of Texas. It's a subjective list, and you can argue with it, but the idea that "no one" would list K-State in with Georgia Tech (64th) and Wake Forest (46th)? False, again.

I won't try to argue that Beasley was a model student and person all through his high school years. He wasn't. But he has been in his time at K-State, and most of those programs you listed would have taken him in a heartbeat if he'd shown any interest.

Oh, and fullor, thanks for the backup on Richmond, Boozer and Blackmond. I'd also add great coaches like Tex Winter, Jack Gardner, Cotton Fitzsimmons, and Jack Hartman.