UNC/Kansas

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

There are a lot of great "college" players who don't end up at those schools. Chris Bosh went to Georgia Tech and Chris Paul went to Wake Forest. You saying those 2 players didn't go to the "traditional" powers because they didn't work hard? Gonzaga has produced 3 players (Stockton, Nash, Morrison) who are considered hard workers. Why didn't they go to UNLV or UCLA, because of their work ethics??

Not that it really detracts from your point, but Nash didn't go to Gonzaga. He went to Santa Clara.

[tomegun]

I think Beasley is a great talent. I've officiated him several times, seen how he interacts with his teammates and know about his situation in high school.

Uh...there is no way he would have ever went to any of those other schools. Let's just say the only way I would believe it is if I was in the room when he took the SAT. Also, his going to K-state did have a lot to do with the assistant coach.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Uh...there is no way he would have ever went to any of those other schools. Let's just say the only way I would believe it is if I was in the room when he took the SAT.

I don't understand this statement, tomegun. K-State's admission standards are equal to KU's, unless I'm misunderstanding your point.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

I don't understand this statement, tomegun. K-State's admission standards are equal to KU's, unless I'm misunderstanding your point.

I think he's implying that Beasley's taking of the SAT was a team effort.

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

There are a lot of great "college" players who don't end up at those schools. Chris Bosh went to Georgia Tech and Chris Paul went to Wake Forest. You saying those 2 players didn't go to the "traditional" powers because they didn't work hard? Gonzaga has produced 3 players (Stockton, Nash, Morrison) who are considered hard workers. Why didn't they go to UNLV or UCLA, because of their work ethics??

And Memphis is not a traditional power (just to quibble), they are a power every 10 years of so. Beasley going to K-State is akin to Penny Hardaway going to Memphis St.

I didn't want to write a disertation about powerhouse NCAA schools, but GT and WF surely are. I have a hard time believing that anyone, no matter how long the list could be, would include Kansas St.

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I think he's implying that Beasley's taking of the SAT was a team effort.

Jw..I didn't want to say it, but know I don't have to. I've seen lots of players really admire their former coaches and not follow them off to college. I don't think talent was the issue here, nor was work ethic. Guys that talented don't have to work extremely hard. However, graduation rates do mean a little more at KU, UK, UNC, Duke, etc...

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops

I didn't want to write a disertation about powerhouse NCAA schools, but GT and WF surely are. I have a hard time believing that anyone, no matter how long the list could be, would include Kansas St.

Ever hear of Rolando Blackman, Bob Boozer, Mitch Richmond? Tradition didn't start 10 years ago. Kansas State has a rich history of basketball
.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops

I didn't want to write a disertation about powerhouse NCAA schools, but GT and WF surely are. I have a hard time believing that anyone, no matter how long the list could be, would include Kansas St.

This does indeed show your age. And this is firmly in fan-boy territory for me, so I'll admit that up front.

I'll concede no national titles for K-State, and won't attempt to stand the program up against UNC or KU or Indiana or UCLA. That would be foolish.

But four Final Fours, 12 Elite Eight appearances, and 16 Sweet 16s, is pretty formidable. The last 20 years have not been kind to Kansas State. But at the end of the regular season in 1988, Kansas State's "history" was pretty much equal to KU's in terms of conference championships, final fours, NCAA tourney appearances, etc, short of KU at that time having one national title. Obviously, KU went on an incredible run over the last 20 years, while K-State slipped into irrelevance.

In 2005, Street and Smith put out its Top 100 Basketball Programs list. Kansas State was 22nd. Hardly an "also-ran". One spot behind Georgetown, one spot ahead of Texas. It's a subjective list, and you can argue with it, but the idea that "no one" would list K-State in with Georgia Tech (64th) and Wake Forest (46th)? False, again.

I won't try to argue that Beasley was a model student and person all through his high school years. He wasn't. But he has been in his time at K-State, and most of those programs you listed would have taken him in a heartbeat if he'd shown any interest.

Oh, and fullor, thanks for the backup on Richmond, Boozer and Blackmond. I'd also add great coaches like Tex Winter, Jack Gardner, Cotton Fitzsimmons, and Jack Hartman.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops

Jw..I didn't want to say it, but know I don't have to. I've seen lots of players really admire their former coaches and not follow them off to college. I don't think talent was the issue here, nor was work ethic. Guys that talented don't have to work extremely hard. However, graduation rates do mean a little more at KU, UK, UNC, Duke, etc...

Oh, and aside from my being a fan of Kansas State, I really don't enjoy when people make assumptions about a person's intelligence or academics without knowing anything.

Beasley will leave for the NBA this year, but he'll do so in very good academic standing. And Kansas State's compliance with the NCAA in the area of academics is outstanding.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

This does indeed show your age. And this is firmly in fan-boy territory for me, so I'll admit that up front.

I'll concede no national titles for K-State, and won't attempt to stand the program up against UNC or KU or Indiana or UCLA. That would be foolish.

But four Final Fours, 12 Elite Eight appearances, and 16 Sweet 16s, is pretty formidable. The last 20 years have not been kind to Kansas State. But at the end of the regular season in 1988, Kansas State's "history" was pretty much equal to KU's in terms of conference championships, final fours, NCAA tourney appearances, etc, short of KU at that time having one national title. Obviously, KU went on an incredible run over the last 20 years, while K-State slipped into irrelevance.

In 2005, Street and Smith put out its Top 100 Basketball Programs list. Kansas State was 22nd. Hardly an "also-ran". One spot behind Georgetown, one spot ahead of Texas. It's a subjective list, and you can argue with it, but the idea that "no one" would list K-State in with Georgia Tech (64th) and Wake Forest (46th)? False, again.

I won't try to argue that Beasley was a model student and person all through his high school years. He wasn't. But he has been in his time at K-State, and most of those programs you listed would have taken him in a heartbeat if he'd shown any interest.

Oh, and fullor, thanks for the backup on Richmond, Boozer and Blackmond. I'd also add great coaches like Tex Winter, Jack Gardner, Cotton Fitzsimmons, and Jack Hartman.

While not up there with UCLA, Duke, NC, etc. IMHO they have a more storied history than Memphis.

I have no horse in this race and don't follow either team.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by fullor30

While not up there with UCLA, Duke, NC, etc. IMHO they have a more storied history than Memphis.

I have no horse in this race and don't follow either team.

Street and Smith agreed with you as well, with Memphis at 61.

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

This does indeed show your age. And this is firmly in fan-boy territory for me, so I'll admit that up front.

I'll concede no national titles for K-State, and won't attempt to stand the program up against UNC or KU or Indiana or UCLA. That would be foolish.

But four Final Fours, 12 Elite Eight appearances, and 16 Sweet 16s, is pretty formidable. The last 20 years have not been kind to Kansas State. But at the end of the regular season in 1988, Kansas State's "history" was pretty much equal to KU's in terms of conference championships, final fours, NCAA tourney appearances, etc, short of KU at that time having one national title. Obviously, KU went on an incredible run over the last 20 years, while K-State slipped into irrelevance.

In 2005, Street and Smith put out its Top 100 Basketball Programs list. Kansas State was 22nd. Hardly an "also-ran". One spot behind Georgetown, one spot ahead of Texas. It's a subjective list, and you can argue with it, but the idea that "no one" would list K-State in with Georgia Tech (64th) and Wake Forest (46th)? False, again.

I won't try to argue that Beasley was a model student and person all through his high school years. He wasn't. But he has been in his time at K-State, and most of those programs you listed would have taken him in a heartbeat if he'd shown any interest.

Oh, and fullor, thanks for the backup on Richmond, Boozer and Blackmond. I'd also add great coaches like Tex Winter, Jack Gardner, Cotton Fitzsimmons, and Jack Hartman.

My age, I bet you couldn't guess my age within 10 years. That aside. History is great, I love it and actually teach it. My take is simple: Kansas St. is a great school. They have had several elite basketball teams and players. Richmond was there in '88, Boozer in 58-59, Blackman in 1980. I hardly think this puts them in college basketballs royalty. Definetly not a powerhouse. Heck, Davidson has had some greats too. Three All-Americans which included Fred Hetzel (twice), Dick Synder, and Mike Maloy (twice) and John Gerdy. This season Curry. Does this make them royalty or a place where the top players in the country want to go. I hardly think so. And if you want to talk coaches, Davidson had one of the best all time in Lefty.

I'm glad that we can finally agree that Beasley isn't exactly a model citizen or at least wan't. I think its a little easier to straight up when you know that your every move is being watched by NBA scouts. I hope he does well and I'm sure he will.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Not that it really detracts from your point, but Nash didn't go to Gonzaga. He went to Santa Clara.

Duuuhhh....at least they're in the same conference.

And Nate, you've totally meandered away from you main point, which was work ethic towards basketball. You implied the reason Beasley didn't go to a "traditional" power was he work ethic. Now you switch mid-stream and talk about academics. Two totally differently subjects.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops

I didn't want to write a disertation about powerhouse NCAA schools, but GT and WF surely are. I have a hard time believing that anyone, no matter how long the list could be, would include Kansas St.

You've been eating too much pulled pork down your way if you think GT and WF are 'powerhouses'.

For that I don't need a 'disertation'

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally Posted by fullor30

You've been eating too much pulled pork down your way if you think GT and WF are 'powerhouses'.

For that I don't need a 'disertation'

As much a powerhouse as K-State or Gonzaga.