UNC/Kansas

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

I believe Hansborough will be lucky to measure a full 6'7". You can normally take whatever they're listed at on the college roster and subtract 2-3". He doesn't have much height and only decent length. He's not very athletic (compared to other college power forwards who will play in the league). His mid-range game has gotten better, but he has sub-par handles for a small PF, and his defense is not NBA-ready.

That said, he works hard and has the "want to" that will land him a roster spot for a long time. If he proves to be a consistent, long-term, productive starter for a team, I'll admit my mistake, but I just don't see it.

I am a Carolina fan and I think it's pretty funny that you think Hansborough is 6'7". I agree a lot of the time things are stretched in the programs and player profiles, but to say 6'7". If that's the case then there are no big men in college basketball anymore. You are saying that Kobe B. is taller than Hans...lol.

As far as him in the NBA, he will be fine. Is he going to score 25+ ppg, probably not. Everyone said the same thing about Elton Brand coming out of Duke. He's 6'9" and only a bruiser. Look what he has done. He has added a consistant 17 foot jumper and continues to dominate PF that are bigger and longer. Tyler has the work ethic and will to improve. I think he has shown that throughout his years at UNC. He will be a solid NBA player, probably not an all-star, but solid. The comparison to Joakim Noah is a joke. Noah had only two thing going for him in college.....energy and length. Tyler has more skill, strength and want to than Noah.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops

I am a Carolina fan and I think it's pretty funny that you think Hansborough is 6'7". I agree a lot of the time things are stretched in the programs and player profiles, but to say 6'7". If that's the case then there are no big men in college basketball anymore. You are saying that Kobe B. is taller than Hans...lol.

I like TH. That said, I think he's closer to 6'7" than 6'9". I'd actually put money on 6'8" in shoes when he's measured for the draft. All you have to do is look at him next to other big guys. It's actually a testament to his desire and work ethic that he was able to put up the numbers he did this year, considering he's undersized.

I think most people are actually frustrated with the excessive media coverage of him - not because he's not good, but because some in the media have made him out to be so much more than he is. He had an excellent year and should be congratulated, but to listen to some you'd think he's the hardest working, most competitive guy to ever grace the college scene by a long shot. I just don't buy into that hype.

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

I like TH. That said, I think he's closer to 6'7" than 6'9". I'd actually put money on 6'8" in shoes when he's measured for the draft. All you have to do is look at him next to other big guys. It's actually a testament to his desire and work ethic that he was able to put up the numbers he did this year, considering he's undersized.

I think most people are actually frustrated with the excessive media coverage of him - not because he's not good, but because some in the media have made him out to be so much more than he is. He had an excellent year and should be congratulated, but to listen to some you'd think he's the hardest working, most competitive guy to ever grace the college scene by a long shot. I just don't buy into that hype.

I think this is funny as can be. You have officials (Camron Rust) bashing, questioning other officials...all but accusing them of helping Carolina get back in the game. You have 15 people saying Tyler isn't a quality post player, yet he is the National POY and if you watch any game he played in this season, yes even the Kansas game, he is double and triple teamed in the post all game long. He is on pace, if he comes back, to become UNC's all time leading scorer. He's scored a ton more than Sean May...who may I remind you is undersized....Listed at 6'8" at UNC....http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/seanmay.asp. I think he is a pretty good NBA player. He has been plagued by injury but in his rookie season he averaged 11ppg. Do you know how many shots May blocked in his 3 season at Carolina?? 95. Do you know his career scoring average....15.8. Tyler has blocked 56...thats a difference of about .3 per game..lol. Oh and scoring, Tyler's career average is 19.8. I think he will be okay.

I think the media has made him out to be what he is. A hard working, skilled, basketball player. He doesn't have the talent of a Beasley or a Mayo, but he'll do things those pretty boys won't. I think if you ask any coach in the country who do you want to start your team....about 80% will say Tyler.

[Adam]

And the vast majority of us don't give a $#!^.
I am laughing about how this thread seems to resemble a fan-forum thread.

"Tyler's the greatest ever. His coach compared him to Jordan."
"No, Tyler's an overrated psycho."
"You're just jealous."
"Shut up."

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops

You have 15 people saying Tyler isn't a quality post player.

I haven't seen one person say he isn't a quality post player. In fact, I think he's deserving of his National POY Award. The only thing anyone has said about TH is that he struggled at times in the KU game and that he's undersized and will struggle to be more than a role player in the NBA.

All that said, I think if Hansbrough played for Kansas State and Michael Beasley played for UNC, Beasley would be POY and Hansbrough wouldn't even be mentioned...but that's more commentary on media coverage and probably out of place.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops

I think this is funny as can be. You have officials (Camron Rust) bashing, questioning other officials...all but accusing them of helping Carolina get back in the game.

I'm not so much accusing them conciously/purposefully of helping UNC back in the game. Its pretty common for officials to shift all close calls to favor a team that is getting pounded...it can be a good practice to manage the game. I'm not saying they did any different. I've done it and I don't know if there is an official who hasn't done it. It was looking like the game was over. However, care has to be taken to not do that too early...especially when the game has impact that this one does. In doing it too early myself, I've seen a team turn it around and threaten to win. Would they have done so without my earlier favorable calls? Maybe, maybe not, but I sure helped them. Now, I wait a little longer before shifting the threshold of the close calls. Would UNC have turned it around without some of those generous calls? Maybe. But they did get the benefit of a few.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I'm not so much accusing them conciously/purposefully of helping UNC back in the game. Its pretty common for officials to shift all close calls to favor a team that is getting pounded...it can be a good practice to manage the game. I'm not saying they did any different. I've done it and I don't know if there is an official who hasn't done it. It was looking like the game was over. However, care has to be taken to not do that too early...especially when the game has impact that this one does. In doing it too early myself, I've seen a team turn it around and threaten to win. Would they have done so without my earlier favorable calls? Maybe, maybe not, but I sure helped them. Now, I wait a little longer before shifting the threshold of the close calls. Would UNC have turned it around without some of those generous calls? Maybe. But they did get the benefit of a few.

I agree with everything you say, Camron, but would add that I think this happens as much sub-conciously as it does conciously for many officials. I thought exactly as you did - that for a period of time in that game several close calls (none of them were atrociously bad at all, IMO) all went in UNC's favor.

That said, KU did themselves no favors at the end of the first half and just played pretty stupidly at times, doing a whole lot more to let UNC back in the game than any of those close calls did.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And the vast majority of us don't give a $#!^.
I am laughing about how this thread seems to resemble a fan-forum thread.

It was a fan-forum thread from the git-go. WOBW.

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I'm not so much accusing them conciously/purposefully of helping UNC back in the game. Its pretty common for officials to shift all close calls to favor a team that is getting pounded...it can be a good practice to manage the game. I'm not saying they did any different. I've done it and I don't know if there is an official who hasn't done it. It was looking like the game was over. However, care has to be taken to not do that too early...especially when the game has impact that this one does. In doing it too early myself, I've seen a team turn it around and threaten to win. Would they have done so without my earlier favorable calls? Maybe, maybe not, but I sure helped them. Now, I wait a little longer before shifting the threshold of the close calls. Would UNC have turned it around without some of those generous calls? Maybe. But they did get the benefit of a few.

And wow, we as officials are all wrong. We thought that when idiot coaches yell at us about cheating their team, that they knew nothing about the game. According to Mr. Rust he makes practice of awarding the team that is behind with close calls. YIKES!!! I often officiate some youth league games, so to say that I have never done this would be lying. Last week, youth tournament, 4-5th grade girls...team down 32-6...I point the same direction on every held ball and every close out of bounds play. I think everyone understood. To do this at the varsity level or in this case the Elite 8 is IGNORANT!!! I doubt that there was one person in that building or in front of the TV that didn't think Carolina would make a run. They had the highest scoring offense in the country.

On one hand you want to say it's okay to do what you think the officials did (which was slant calls in Carolina's favor) and in the next breathe say I think I would have waited a little longer (lol...40-12) and then hold the officials accountable for the score "being close." Thats NUTS!!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops

And wow, we as officials are all wrong. We thought that when idiot coaches yell at us about cheating their team, that they knew nothing about the game. According to Mr. Rust he makes practice of awarding the team that is behind with close calls. YIKES!!! I often officiate some youth league games, so to say that I have never done this would be lying. Last week, youth tournament, 4-5th grade girls...team down 32-6...I point the same direction on every held ball and every close out of bounds play. I think everyone understood. To do this at the varsity level or in this case the Elite 8 is IGNORANT!!!

I suggest you watch more games then. While some here may not want to admit it, it happens at all levels....but usually only in the last 3-5 minutes of a blowout. I absolutely give any benefit of doubt in late game calls to a team that is getting crushed...even in varsity game. I'm not talking about seeing things only in favor of one team. I'm not talking about flipping every AP possessoin or obvious OOB calls as you suggest in kids games, but close calls....a bang-bang block/charge, OOB calls with both sets of hands in the mix. One team thinks they're getting the short end of the stick, no need to shorten it further. Manage the game and get it over with while doing things to keep the involved parties from losing their heads.

Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops

I doubt that there was one person in that building or in front of the TV that didn't think Carolina would make a run. They had the highest scoring offense in the country.

On one hand you want to say it's okay to do what you think the officials did (which was slant calls in Carolina's favor) and in the next breathe say I think I would have waited a little longer (lol...40-12) and then hold the officials accountable for the score "being close." Thats NUTS!!

There are calls that are right only if at the right time. We make or don't make calls all the time based on the situation. There are calls that might be "right" that are wrong for the game. There are calls that are "wrong" that are right for the game. If it were a 28 point game with 4 minutes to go in the 2nd, the calls would not have even elicited a comment from me....I would have expected it. With teams capable of covering the deficit, you don't do it.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

He had an excellent year and should be congratulated, but to listen to some you'd think he's the hardest working, most competitive guy to ever grace the college scene by a long shot. I just don't buy into that hype.

If you think that, then that's you're problem. I haven't read or heard anyone say that. There's no hype regarding his work ethic. You simply have no idea WTF you're talking about.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

If you think that, then that's you're problem. I haven't read or heard anyone say that. There's no hype regarding his work ethic. You simply have no idea WTF you're talking about.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

If you think that, then that's you're problem. I haven't read or heard anyone say that. There's no hype regarding his work ethic. You simply have no idea WTF you're talking about.

I actually have heard that, from his coach. He compared his focus and intensity to Michael Jordan's.

Here's what I could find on the fly:

"He does the same thing in practice every day," Williams said. "The young man is the most driven, most focused youngster I've ever seen in my life to try to be the best player he can be and to help his team win," Williams said.

That's awfully high praise, considering how many great players Williams has coached. Louisville coach Rick Pitino compared Hansbrough's drive to that of the greatest players in the history of the game, even Michael Jordan. Said Pitino, "Certainly, he doesn't have all of those skills of those superstars. But, just like shooting, rebounding, playing defense and passing are skills, working hard is an acquired skill."

The quote I heard from Williams actually mentioned Jordan directly.

[BktBallRef]

Where did jdw, or whatever the hell his name, is comment about anything Coach Williams said? He wrote, "I think most people are actually frustrated with the excessive media coverage of him - not because he's not good, but because some in the media have made him out to be so much more than he is. He had an excellent year and should be congratulated, but to listen to some you'd think he's the hardest working, most competitive guy to ever grace the college scene by a long shot. I just don't buy into that hype."

Even though coaches will always brag on their kids, I would expect Coach Williams to know more about Hansbrough than jdw. Even I know that Jordan is one of the most competitive players to ever play the game. But I also know he did not work as hard in college as Hansbrough does. Michael's talent was much more God given. Tyler has had to work harder for his.

All this stuff about Hansbrough and the NBA is bu11$hit. Even NBA scouts don't agree on how effective he will be. To illustrate, how many D-1 coaches passed Stephen Curry?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Where did jdw, or whatever the hell his name, is comment about anything Coach Williams said? He wrote, "I think most people are actually frustrated with the excessive media coverage of him - not because he's not good, but because some in the media have made him out to be so much more than he is. He had an excellent year and should be congratulated, but to listen to some you'd think he's the hardest working, most competitive guy to ever grace the college scene by a long shot. I just don't buy into that hype."

Even though coaches will always brag on their kids, I would expect Coach Williams to know more about Hansbrough than jdw. Even I know that Jordan is one of the most competitive players to ever play the game. But I also know he did not work as hard in college as Hansbrough does. Michael's talent was much more God given. Tyler has had to work harder for his.

All this stuff about Hansbrough and the NBA is bu11$hit. Even NBA scouts don't agree on how effective he will be. To illustrate, how many D-1 coaches passed Stephen Curry?

Wow, pretty fired up BktBallRef. All I was saying is that the media coverage has been excessive in covering his work ethic and desire. I said earlier, I really like Hansbrough, believe he deserved POY honors, and enjoy watching him play.

But, if you don't believe his "work ethic" and "want-to" have been hiped to an extreme, I guess we've been watching different TV. I think it's what makes his critics more passionate than they would be otherwise.