UNC/Kansas

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I hope we know enough about basketball to realize he may have won POY, but he is not a Michael Beasley type talent.

I'd just like to add my 100% agreement with this statement. In fact, I believe it to be quite an understatement, as TH isn't close to being a Michael Beasley type talent.

And while I believe Beasley was far and away the best player in college basketball this year, Derrick Rose is having an outstanding NCAA tournament and deserves any positive praise that comes his way...

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I hope we know enough about basketball to realize he may have won POY, but he is not a Michael Beasley type talent. I've seen this before. When Jamison won POY at UNC I was wondering, "Doesn't everyone realize Vince Carter is a better player?"

POY is the same as the Heisman - it rarely goes to the "best" player in the college game. It usually goes to the player whose school gets the most National coverage and whose school invests a bunch of $$ into a PR campaign.

[grunewar]

Does College POY translate into NBA super stardom? You be the judge.....

* 1990 - Lionel Simmons, La Salle * 1991 - Larry Johnson, UNLV
* 1992 - Christian Laettner, Duke * 1994 - Glenn Robinson, Purdue
* 1995 - Joe Smith, Maryland * 1996 - Marcus Camby, Massachusetts
* 1997 - Tim Duncan, Wake Forest * 1998 - Antawn Jamison, NC
* 1999 - Elton Brand, Duke * 2000 - Kenyon Martin, Cincinnati
* 2001 - Shane Battier, Duke * 2002 - Jason Williams, Duke
* 2003 - T. J. Ford, Texas * 2004 - Jameer Nelson, St. Joseph's
* 2005 - Andrew Bogut, Utah * 2006 - J.J. Redick, Duke
* 2007 - Kevin Durant, Texas

PS - five Dukies.....

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by grunewar

PS - five Dukies.....

Please, don't make me pukie.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by ChrisSportsFan

17 points, 9 boards, 2 assists and 3 to's. I think there are several NBA squads that would take that. Like someone else said, UNC got outplayed at the guard spot.

Hansborough got owned several times. He got the ball stuffed and stolen more than a couple times. On defense, he didn't do much.

Also, KS was running several big men with fresh legs in there. By all means, I and not jocking Hansboro but don't dis the guy for being good. What will his NBA career be like??? We might have to wait another year. Maybe that's why he has stayed because he already knows. He did draw 4 PC and TC fouls, 2 of which looked like he duped the officials.

I agree. When the lead was >20 points, there were a hand full of interesting calls....most by the same official. Those enabled UNC to stop the bleeding and start to come back. I was watching the game with a group of officials and none of us could figure out how they came up with the calls he did. It was almost like he wanted to limit how bad UNC got beat by and gave them a couple of gifts. While I can see doing that in the end of a big blowout, halfway through the first half is way to early to shift into that mode.

[edited to reflect that it was actually more than one official but mostly one]

[tomegun]

Camron, which official are you talking about.

BTW, you are about to get blasted.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

It was almost like he wanted to limit how bad UNC got beat by and gave them a couple of gifts. While I can see doing that in the end of a big blowout, halfway through the first half is way to early to shift into that mode.

What "mode" is that? and how do you "shift into it?"

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

I believe Hansborough will be lucky to measure a full 6'7". You can normally take whatever they're listed at on the college roster and subtract 2-3".

Agreed.

Steve Nash is listed at 6'3". I've met Steve Nash. There's no way that he's 6'3".

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

I believe Hansborough will be lucky to measure a full 6'7". You can normally take whatever they're listed at on the college roster and subtract 2-3".

Say it ain't so!

[icallfouls]

Hansbrough is a very good college player, possibly the best that college ball has this year.

As far as the NBA is concerned, disadvantages: he has limited range 15-17 feet, is too small to play with his back to the basket, can't get his shot off or create against longer, faster players, and cannot leap over taller players. Things that will work to his advantage: doesn't need the ball to score, nobody will outwork him. Of course, an 82+ game season will take a significant toll on a player like this.

I also don't think that he is really 6'9" either, so on defense he is definitely going to get posted up alot and be in alot of posters while getting thrown down on.

[tomegun]

If by some stretch Hansbrough was to get on a team and start, a stretch of games in the NBA could have him seeing these players:

Garnett
Stoudamire
Nowitski
Gasol
Wallace

I think those guys wouldn't mind taking a night off against Hansbrough.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Camron, which official are you talking about.

BTW, you are about to get blasted.

It was actually two of them but mostly one (I don't know their names)...from somewhere around 6:00 remaining in the first to about 3:00 remaining in the first. There were 2-3 charge calls against KU where the UNC defender was still sliding in after the shooter was airborne. In another there was a little contact and Hansbrough threw himself on the floor for the PC. There was also a fast break with, from every camera angle, no contact as the defender cut under the shooter but a foul was called (and far more contact was being passed on prior to that point). Then there was a block called on KU where the defender had a better position than any of the previous Block/Charges that were called a PC. Just a series of head-scratching calls that were inconsistent with the rest of the game.

(and no, I'm not a KU fan and have never been)

[wildcatter]

Meh, I'm a huge KU fan, and I thought the officials did a very good job officiating a very tough game (maybe you'd agree, except with the PC/TC fouls? I'm not sure). Lots of contact, and very fast-paced... tough game for sure.

I know the calls you're talking about Camron - I've spent the entire Sunday re-watching the game on tivo. I agree with you about 2 Hansbrough PCs, but for the most part, I thought the KU PCs were right on (the multiple Collins PCs, and one of the Rush's PCs). BTW on the fast break, was that the jeremy case foul? It looked the same to me, till I realized on the undercut he slapped his elbow...

I was impressed the way the refs officiated Hansbrough when he had the ball - he can initiate contact to draw fouls and get to the line better than any college player I've seen this year. That shotput with his right hand and use of the other forearm to step in and draw contact (sometimes initiating it) is so hard to ref, especially the way he moves.

I think the refs called a good travels on him when he was trying to force his way into defenders (could have called more), and they didn't give into the temptation to call fouls even though both teams were turning the ball over so much (on steals/blocks/loose balls, when there was contact, but that didn't serve an advantage).

Only chance Hansbrough has to be a good NBA player is to extend his range and work to become a better defender... one more year could really help him work on that.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by wildcatter

Meh, I'm a huge KU fan, and I thought the officials did a very good job officiating a very tough game (maybe you'd agree, except with the PC/TC fouls? I'm not sure). Lots of contact, and very fast-paced... tough game for sure.

I too think they did an overall great job...just that 2-3 minute stretch late in the first that had me scratching my head.

Originally Posted by wildcatter

I know the calls you're talking about Camron - I've spent the entire Sunday re-watching the game on tivo. I agree with you about 2 Hansbrough PCs, but for the most part, I thought the KU PCs were right on (the multiple Collins PCs, and one of the Rush's PCs).

Agreed, may of the were spot on...just the ones in that one segment were interesting. Along with the other calls in that window, it put the brakes on the KU rout.

Originally Posted by wildcatter

BTW on the fast break, was that the jeremy case foul? It looked the same to me, till I realized on the undercut he slapped his elbow...

I don't think that he did...none of the replay I saw showed it nor did the shooter's arm react as if it had been touched. Even if he did barely touch it, it was completely inconsistent with much of the game.

Originally Posted by wildcatter

I was impressed the way the refs officiated Hansbrough when he had the ball - he can initiate contact to draw fouls and get to the line better than any college player I've seen this year. That shotput with his right hand and use of the other forearm to step in and draw contact (sometimes initiating it) is so hard to ref, especially the way he moves.

I noticed that he was somewhat frustrated in not getting the calls that he expected when he would try to force his way through the defense.

As for the off forearm play in this game, the defender was sailing in and never had a good position. I didn't think the arm gave Hansbrough any advantage on that one. I agreed with the foul on the defender.

Originally Posted by wildcatter

I think the refs called a good travels on him when he was trying to force his way into defenders (could have called more), and they didn't give into the temptation to call fouls even though both teams were turning the ball over so much (on steals/blocks/loose balls, when there was contact, but that didn't serve an advantage).

Yep...agreeed.

Originally Posted by wildcatter

Only chance Hansbrough has to be a good NBA player is to extend his range and work to become a better defender... one more year could really help him work on that.

I don't think he'll ever be a good player at the NBA. He'll play but unless he improves a lot defensively, I can see him getting posterized time and time again....a big liability...and not big enough or a good enough jumper to pull in a lot of rebounds. On the other end, KU's big men really ate him up...how many of his shots were blocked or altered? How many times did he get into a trap and turn the ball over? Almost like he'd not seen any teams with good interior defense...does the ACC not have any good defensive big men?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Camron, which official are you talking about.

BTW, you are about to get blasted.

That would be Tony Greene. I was rooting for KU but I thought all the TC/PC calls against KU in the first half were solid. There was one play where Hansbrough may have leaned slightly at point of contact but he still took solid contact to the torso. And don't forget he was properly called for a block on the sideline in the last minute of the 1st half (by Tone Greene).

KU started playing out of control in the last few minutes of the 1st half. It was their erratic play that allowed UNC to start its comeback.