Airball - held ball, you make the call

[pizanno]

Testing the waters out there:

25 seconds on shot clock. A1 airballs. B2 & A2 simultaneously rebound. Official calls held-ball. Possesion arrow to Team A.

Do we reset the clock?

(NF & NCAA are same)

[Bart Tyson]

when you have a shot, we no longer have team control. ap and reset shot clock.

[Art N]

I disagree with the Bart-meister.... NO rim, NO change in possession, ergo NO reset, right? Maybe we can hear from the vets on this one.

[Dennis Flannery]

Well the key to this whole thing is how the jump ball came about. As mentioned above the jump ball was a SIMULTANEOUS thing, then you have an arrow issue, and a reset shot clock. If Team A had got the ball first, and then Team B casued the jump, then there would be no reset. The key to it all is when the jump happened.

[Art N]

Why is this any different than any other jump/AP? And why (NFHS) does it matter who tied up who?

[Dennis Flannery]

The reason for the difference is this, on a shot there is no team control, so if A2 and B2 grab an airball at the same time, who has control first...NO ONE this is why you reset it, where if A2 got the airball first, and then B2 tied him up, A still had team control , this is why there is no rest.

[Art N]

Man, I'm really confused on this one. Ok, let me see... Air ball or a missed shot off backboard... rebounded by A, or both A & B and the AP is A's, right? Where in the rules does say to RESET on the jump? This doesn't seem logical to me at all. The shot (even though not team control) doesn't constitute the RESET until it hits iron, right? Then why are you guys resetting the clock on the jump ball? HELP!!

[Todd VandenAkker]

I agree. Because the shot clock continues on the air ball, and the jump ball results in the shooting team getting the ball back, there is NO reset of the clock. Had this happen to me two years ago. The veterans who saw the play told me I was wrong in resetting the clock (for the same reasons Dennis gave), and after studying the rule book on this one I determined that they were right. Even though there is not team control on the shot, if the shot clock continues and the same team gets the ball back--whether from a "simultaneous" jump ball, two opponents simultaneously causing the ball to go out of bounds, or a double foul--the shot clock stays where it is.

[barney]

'Todd', your saying that the shot clock stays on a 'double foul' situation???
Are you sure of this one?
I thought in HS the shot clock was reset on all fouls?

[Dennis Flannery]

Fisrt off there was no talk of double fouls in this thread, and if there was then yes you would always reset the clock. Now back to the main thing an airball that is turned into a jump...in California, we get a manuel for the CBOA...in this manuel it talks about this, and the most important thing to remember is when the jump starts, yes it does take the ball to hit the rim to reset, but if both B&A get the ball at the same time, there is no team control before this, so go to the arrow, and reset because of the no team control.

[Todd VandenAkker]

quote:

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Originally posted by barney on 02-11-2000 09:38 AM
'Todd', your saying that the shot clock stays on a 'double foul' situation???
Are you sure of this one?
I thought in HS the shot clock was reset on all fouls?

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In NCAA rules, yes...the clock stays the same on a double foul, after giving the ball back to the team that had possession at the time of the fouls. No possession arrow use on that play. That was a new rule either this or last year. As for high school, there IS no Federation provision for shot clocks. That's why I've been asking who determines resets for states that use the shot clock. Haven't gotten a clear response on that one, yet.

[pizanno]

quote:

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Originally posted by Todd VandenAkker on 02-11-2000 09:10 AM
I agree. Because the shot clock continues on the air ball, and the jump ball results in the shooting team getting the ball back, there is NO reset of the clock. Had this happen to me two years ago. The veterans who saw the play told me I was wrong in resetting the clock (for the same reasons Dennis gave), and after studying the rule book on this one I determined that they were right. Even though there is not team control on the shot, if the shot clock continues and the same team gets the ball back--whether from a "simultaneous" jump ball, two opponents simultaneously causing the ball to go out of bounds, or a double foul--the shot clock stays where it is.

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I knew this would stir up some discussion!

It is a reset.

Check out NCAA rule 2-13-c-4: ...continue time without a reset when play begins under the following circumstances: 4) During team control as defined in Rule 4-7-b, a defensive player causes a held ball and the possession arrow favors the offensive team.

Since we all agree that there is no team control, the fact that the shooting team (not OFFENSIVE team -- no team control at the time of SIMULTANEOUS rebound/possession) has the arrow is irrelevant.

Reset the clock.

[pizanno]

Forgot to add:

Team control remains when:
* ball goes OOB simulateously touched
* double foul situation (unless during shot flight)

Team control is applied differently when a shot is in flight. Same reason why players can catch their own airball, but not their own pass.

[Art N]

Todd, I asked our interpreter about the double foul and the reset of shot clock situation last night . He said (NFHS) that we reset on ALL fouls, double included, and give the ball to AP team.