Here's an idea

[Coltdoggs]

I proposed to my refs in my rec league that we donate one day's game checks to the IHSAA for purchase of rule books that we could stuff in our pockets. Then one one of those silly azh fans yelled something like "OVER THE BACK" we could fling a rule book at them on our next trip to the other end of the court!

Problem with that is...I'm not sure 6 refs x 5 games each X $25 a game would cover enough books!

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

I proposed to my refs in my rec league that we donate one day's game checks to the IHSAA for purchase of rule books that we could stuff in our pockets. Then one one of those silly azh fans yelled something like "OVER THE BACK" we could fling a rule book at them on our next trip to the other end of the court!

Problem with that is...I'm not sure 6 refs x 5 games each X $25 a game would cover enough books!

Plus, you'd get called lard@$$ till you emptied your pockets.

[Mark Padgett]

I've been saying for years that our official's jerseys should have "There's no such foul as a reach" printed on the front and "There's no such foul as over-the-back" printed on the back.

Actually, I've thought of carrying cards in my pocket that say that and just handing them to coaches during games when appropriate.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Plus, you'd get called lard@$$ till you emptied your pockets.

Big deal - in a typical game, that would take about 30 seconds.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

I proposed to my refs in my rec league that we donate one day's game checks to the IHSAA for purchase of rule books that we could stuff in our pockets. Then one one of those silly azh fans yelled something like "OVER THE BACK" we could fling a rule book at them on our next trip to the other end of the court!

Problem with that is...I'm not sure 6 refs x 5 games each X $25 a game would cover enough books!

I'd be willing to donate more than one game fee, if we could get the rule book in hard back.

[Raymond]

Maybe we can all pool our money together and send lpbreeze to a basketball camp in Southern California.

[JHamp]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Maybe we can all pool our money together and send lpbreeze to a basketball camp in Southern California.

That's hitting below the belt, try to keep the gloves up.

[oldschool]

Seeing this forum has gone to the "over the back" And "reach in" I just need some clarification. I am in my second year of officiating now and enjoying every minute of it. I had coached youth basketball for the last 20 years and was looking for a way to stay around the game. My concern is officials constantly on this forum make a joke of coaches and fans who use the above terms. In my coaching I would always use these terms because people are trying to rebound over the back of the person boxing them out making illegal contact. They also do reach in trying to steal the ball which is no foul unless illegal contact is made. Every fan in america also hollers out the same verbage in those situations. As an official now I understand these are called a push or hold etc. I think most officials understand what the coach is implying in these situations don't they? I was coaching in the Nike showcase in Chicago last year and I holler over the back when someone came from behind to gather a rebound in my opinion gaining an unfair advantage. The referee says to me their is no over the back foul with no further explanation. In my mind hearing this for the first time in 20 years of coaching think he of course is an idiot. I guess he needed to explain to an idiot coach it is a push. I guess I am just trying to give some input from the other side to put this in perspective. I guess even some officials give the sign indicating over the back to further confuse the average fan or coach. Just thought I would throw this out there to hopefully not take a beating but just to maybe give a different angle. Thanks

Originally Posted by oldschool

I guess even some officials give the sign indicating over the back to further confuse the average fan or coach.

Forgive them Father for they know not what they do...

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by oldschool

Seeing this forum has gone to the "over the back" And "reach in" I just need some clarification. I am in my second year of officiating now and enjoying every minute of it. I had coached youth basketball for the last 20 years and was looking for a way to stay around the game. My concern is officials constantly on this forum make a joke of coaches and fans who use the above terms. In my coaching I would always use these terms because people are trying to rebound over the back of the person boxing them out making illegal contact. They also do reach in trying to steal the ball which is no foul unless illegal contact is made. Every fan in america also hollers out the same verbage in those situations. As an official now I understand these are called a push or hold etc. I think most officials understand what the coach is implying in these situations don't they? I was coaching in the Nike showcase in Chicago last year and I holler over the back when someone came from behind to gather a rebound in my opinion gaining an unfair advantage. The referee says to me their is no over the back foul with no further explanation. In my mind hearing this for the first time in 20 years of coaching think he of course is an idiot. I guess he needed to explain to an idiot coach it is a push. I guess I am just trying to give some input from the other side to put this in perspective. I guess even some officials give the sign indicating over the back to further confuse the average fan or coach. Just thought I would throw this out there to hopefully not take a beating but just to maybe give a different angle. Thanks

Usually, the use of these terms, "reach" and "over the back" come with common misconceptions. The people that use these terms are less likely to have an understanding of the rules and how they are interpreted; that's why it has become a pet peeve of many officials. I can't comment about the official at the Nike camp, as I was not there, but I know there is a tendancy among officials to dismiss comments that could be construed as showing a lack of understanding of the rules. But I would think if you would've said something along the lines of, "My player was pushed/displaced/contacted illegally", you might've gotten a better answer or reaction from that official, as you are then speaking in rule terms, not "fan-speak".

[oldschool]

M&M are you saying that even though you as an official knows exactly what the coach is asking but did not use the correct terminology you would not give him his due. If this is the case maybe we need to do a better job in our rules interpretation meetings for coaches that unless you use the correct terminology we will ignore you. Point of emphasis for 08-09 to coaches!

Originally Posted by oldschool

maybe we need to do a better job in our rules interpretation meetings for coaches that unless you use the correct terminology we will ignore you.

I believe the good coaches already know that

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by oldschool

M&M are you saying that even though you as an official knows exactly what the coach is asking but did not use the correct terminology you would not give him his due.

No, I would not say this.

You gave the example of the official at the camp - I don't know all the details about this interaction, but perhaps all the official heard from you was, "That's over the back!", and the only answer he was able to give you as he was running by was, "There's no such thing as over the back in the rules." He would be correct, and perhaps that was his way of telling you there was no illegal contact on that play. But remember, you didn't ask about illegal contact, you asked about something that is not in the rules, and the associated misconceptions that go along with that phrase.

"Giving the coach his due" is very dependent on the specific situation. If I know a coach has a working knowledge of the rules, and is simply using the phrase, I will give them the proper explanation of the call or no-call. If I've never seen the coach before, it may depend on the level of the game as to how I react to the comment. A grade-school level coach may get the "no such call" answer, because there is a greater chance they do not know the rules, and I will not have time in that particular game to explain the rules to them.

So, do I give the coach his due? It depends.

[26 Year Gap]

[canuckref]

Originally Posted by oldschool

As an official now I understand these are called a push or hold etc.

I work with two officials who will usually make an "over the back" and "reaching in" call a couple of times a game. I have cringed a few times working with them. I spoke with them both about the calls, their excuse: I used to be a coach!