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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Mar 01, 2008, 09:11am
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Question help with a Tech call from Refs NFHS rules

Help, I dont have the 2007-2008 NFHS rule book,

I was asked to be the assistant coach for a championship game,

The league rules are based on NFHS rules and a few league bylaws


We started the game with 3 league approved coaches, a head coach
3 officials worked the game, the coaching box wasin use


3 minutes into the game the other assistant was saying "how do we get a
charge" the official jogged by and called a T on the bench. 2 shots and possesion
were given to the other team the Assistant immediately stopped any talk other than
to the players.

A minute thirty later another of the officials came by and instructed the coach
to sit on the bench and could no longer use the box ( I can understand that one)
Then the ref told the assistant he was not a coach and told to leave the bench,
compliance was immediate and no argument was made. The Assistant went to the stands.

At the time out we asked to see the tournament director, since it was the finals.
We were told to wait until halftime. A halftime I was taked with lodging a Protest
over the removal of the assistant. The tournament director told us that we were only
allowed on assistant. We discussed the lack of such a rule in the Bylaws.

The Tournament director acknowledged the protest and at the third quarter break
asked the referees, to which they replied the assistant received the tech not the team
as we were told and was removed via the rules of one tech on an assistant and out?

An aside, during the third quarter the Head coach and assistant were switching back and forth
using the box, one was always seated, and it was not due to cheering or welcoming a player back.
When this was pointed out tournament director (now setting near our bench) and it stopped soon after.

Other info, the official score keeper had recored the tech but did not charge it to the team as a team
foul ( not that it mattered as the teams total was 4 at the end of the first half.)

There were no warnings given, no additional Techs, no Flagrants not a rough game At all


The Bylaws both local and state have been checked and no rule regarding the removal of an
assistant after one Tech charged are in the rules

Since I am not an official this year, only a coach I do not have the 07/08 rule changes
for NFHS. Could someone clarify this for me ?

Was an assistant coach removed after one T a mistake ?

After all the years I have officialed or coached I have neve heard of such.

Thanks in advance


The championship was decided by one point, other teams favor.



Thanks
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sat Mar 01, 2008, 09:25am
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Unless the technical foul was ruled flagrant, the assistant coach does not have to leave the bench after receiving a single T.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sat Mar 01, 2008, 09:27am
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Flagrant ???

Under NFHS rules, if the assistant coach was charged with a flagrant technical foul, as an adult, I believe that he could have been ejected away from the court.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sat Mar 01, 2008, 01:55pm
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OK so no-one has heard of this one T and the assistant is out

OK so no-one has heard of this one Technical and the assistant is out

An Adult assistant (Military colonel even tempered ) complied with no arguments or discussion never could have been a flagrant.

Has anyone heard of the above situation happening ?

This was the most bizzarre Basketball situation I have seen
in 25 Years as a Player, Official, or Coach,

Reviewed the film and wonder if we should contact the
local officials association for a ruling.

Wisdom from refs ?

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Old Sat Mar 01, 2008, 02:17pm
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Looks like we have an upset fanboy here. Don't feed the trolls.
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Old Sat Mar 01, 2008, 02:57pm
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Sorry Not a fanboy

Not upset other than the bizzare situation I found myself in
As coach, a ref and an educator I am trying to get an answer
regarding any possible changes in the rule book from my 06-07
copy. I was relocated to a new area and there are a lot of nuances

This was a bizzare situation so I am trying to seek educated
opinions or I would not have written a detailed description.


thanks for any help you can give
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sat Mar 01, 2008, 03:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmund1948
The league rules are based on NFHS rules and a few league bylaws
As far as the NFHS book goes, doesn't have to leave on one technical unless flagrant (as already stated). However, you stated your league has a few additional rules so it's possible it could be a league rule.
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Old Sat Mar 01, 2008, 04:04pm
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Thanks

Been through the bylaws and no mention of this
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Old Sat Mar 01, 2008, 05:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmund1948
The tournament director told us that we were only
allowed on assistant. We discussed the lack of such a rule in the Bylaws.
So did this discrepancy get straightened out? The director thought only one assistant was allowed, although you didn't see it in the written rules. Still, perhaps that played a part in the ruling?

I can't see that filing a protest will change anything. There's almost no league that will change the outcome of a game based on a protest filed by a losing team. And really, how much difference could it make to lose one assistant, if the head coach and the other assistant (you) would handle it correctly?
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Old Sat Mar 01, 2008, 06:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmund1948
OK so no-one has heard of this one Technical and the assistant is out

An Adult assistant (Military colonel even tempered ) complied with no arguments or discussion never could have been a flagrant.

Has anyone heard of the above situation happening ?

This was the most bizzarre Basketball situation I have seen
in 25 Years as a Player, Official, or Coach,

Reviewed the film and wonder if we should contact the
local officials association for a ruling.

Wisdom from refs ?

Dude, they screwed up. Get over it and move on.
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Old Sat Mar 01, 2008, 08:15pm
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmund1948
This was the most bizzarre Basketball situation I have seen
in 25 Years as a Player, Official, or Coach,
You must have had a career full of vanilla games. This was "nothing".
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Old Sat Mar 01, 2008, 08:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett
You must have had a career full of vanilla games. This was "nothing".
Concur!

I did five youth league championship games today that unfortunately make this situation look like a walk in the park......Kids did great. Parents and coaches were all over the place. Too much pressure to win......I'm going to go take a nap now!
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Old Sun Mar 02, 2008, 02:51am
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Many thanks to all

Thanks for all your responses, I know the pressure with the family dynamics
and influences to win. I have never had to ask for work. The officials lack of
communication with the coaches. most T's require some thought as to the reason they are called, many are black and white. In this case I was
amazed as to the lack of warning and the mild "complaining" that resulted in a T to the bench, then the coach, I have seen the gamut of relatively bizzare games, calls, fans and fools. this was so mild !

I am being asked to consider taking the program, as a Head coach, I will be meeting with the league officials for dinner next week.

Thanks for your time, I was asking for a clarification, not a frying or a
lecture.

If any of you have coached and officiated, when the officials are unapproachable, (or the coaches arrogant) then it makes coaching
difficult. In storage, or misplaced, I have some guidelines for giving Technicals that was passed to me during training. The oficials I
respected most used these guidelines and were not afraid to reverse
a blown call.

Thanks again to all
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 02, 2008, 03:01am
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Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
So did this discrepancy get straightened out? The director thought only one assistant was allowed, although you didn't see it in the written rules. Still, perhaps that played a part in the ruling?

I can't see that filing a protest will change anything. There's almost no league that will change the outcome of a game based on a protest filed by a losing team. And really, how much difference could it make to lose one assistant, if the head coach and the other assistant (you) would handle it correctly?
Thanks you are correct, The bylaws allow for the protest to be reviewed and
if a mistake was made, the "Second place Team could be allowed to move forward to the regional tournament without being seeded.

Thats the reason I posted for clarification.

BTW I miss Oregon
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Old Sun Mar 02, 2008, 12:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmund1948
Thanks you are correct, The bylaws allow for the protest to be reviewed and
if a mistake was made, the "Second place Team could be allowed to move forward to the regional tournament without being seeded.

Thats the reason I posted for clarification.

BTW I miss Oregon
1. Your league needs to get rid of that "review of protest" rule. No way a rec league should be even listening to protests.

2. And can you seriously be saying that having your other assistant coach tossed merits an overturn of the outcome of the game?!?

3. You are way, way too legalistic about the rules. Reffing is much more about art and judgment than the letter of the law. Just because one ref was too touchy about some comments, and called a T that another ref wouldn't have, doesn't mean you got robbed. There's no such hard and fast rules out there.
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