Two Questions

[MOFFICIAL]

I have two questions.
1) Exactly when does a goal count. When it is within the cylander or when it comes out of the net?

Situation: A1 driving to the basket and is fouled in the act of shooting by B1. Ball is within the cylander when A2 grasps and hangs on the ring.
IMO I have offensive basket interference that kills the goal. I have a two shot shooting foul with the lane cleared because A1 was fouled in the act by B1. Then I'm giving B two technical free throws for A2 hanging on the rim. Then B gets the ball for division line throw-in.

2) A1 dribbling over half court both feet over the division line and ball has clearly broken the plane of the division line but not touched the floor in the front court. A1 then reverse pivots and goes back into backcourt. I have nothing. What do you have?

[RX Ref]

Originally posted by MOFFICIAL
I have two questions.
1) Exactly when does a goal count. When it is within the cylander or when it comes out of the net?

Situation: A1 driving to the basket and is fouled in the act of shooting by B1. Ball is within the cylander when A2 grasps and hangs on the ring.
IMO I have offensive basket interference that kills the goal. I have a two shot shooting foul with the lane cleared because A1 was fouled in the act by B1. Then I'm giving B two technical free throws for A2 hanging on the rim. Then B gets the ball for division line throw-in.

2) A1 dribbling over half court both feet over the division line and ball has clearly broken the plane of the division line but not touched the floor in the front court. A1 then reverse pivots and goes back into backcourt. I have nothing. What do you have?

I have 2 calls that will make at least 1/2 the people unhappy. In 1), I would count the goal, but give the T.
In 2) I also have nothing.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by RX Ref

I have 2 calls that will make at least 1/2 the people unhappy. In 1), I would count the goal, but give the T.
In 2) I also have nothing.

In (1), they're half happy because you're only half right

The goal does not count because of the BI - 9-11-1 - BI occurs when a player touches the ball/basket/net when the ball is on or within the basket.

1-10-1 - A basket is the rim, flange, braces, and net.

For situation (2), just remember that a dribbler is not in FC until all 3 points (ball, L foot, R foot) touch in the FC. Until all three have touched, the player is still in BC, so he can "retreat."

[Lotto]

Originally posted by MOFFICIAL
I have two questions.
1) Exactly when does a goal count. When it is within the cylander or when it comes out of the net?

Rule 4, Section 31.
Art. 1. A goal shall be made when a live ball enters the basket from above and remains in or passes through, except on a throw-in.

So the ball has to clear the bottom of the net and or remain inside before you have a goal.

2) A1 dribbling over half court both feet over the division line and ball has clearly broken the plane of the division line but not touched the floor in the front court. A1 then reverse pivots and goes back into backcourt. I have nothing. What do you have?

Rule 4, Section 28, Article 3:
c . During a dribble from back court to front court, the ball shall be in the front court when both feet of the dribbler and the ball touch the playing court entirely in the front court.

So I got nothing. Since we have a dribble going, we need all three points (both feet and ball) in the front court before the ball achieves front court status.

(Disclaimer: These are NCAA rules.)

[Bart Tyson]

Lotto is correct. Must clear the net. This came up years ago when a dunk hit the dunker's head and bounce up and out. Now, having said this we have the Bobby Knight rule when it is the opponent.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
Lotto is correct. Must clear the net. This came up years ago when a dunk hit the dunker's head and bounce up and out. Now, having said this we have the Bobby Knight rule when it is the opponent.

Just remember, the definition is remain in or pass through (both NF and NCAA).

Probably intended for two cases - (1) home team switches on its gravity eliminators; (2) the net gets tangled up during a shot, and an offensive rebound is immediately put up for another FGA.

[RX Ref]

In (1), they're half happy because you're only half right

The goal does not count because of the BI - 9-11-1 - BI occurs when a player touches the ball/basket/net when the ball is on or within the basket.

1-10-1 - A basket is the rim, flange, braces, and net.

Yes, after I looked it up, I realized that. Good, now I will get it right the first time it happens....

[MOFFICIAL]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
Lotto is correct. Must clear the net. This came up years ago when a dunk hit the dunker's head and bounce up and out. Now, having said this we have the Bobby Knight rule when it is the opponent.

Bart,
I am now clear that the ball must come out of the bottom of the net to be considered a good goal. Let me propose this:
Shot is in the air and tall guy spins to block out and hits the net that then wraps and catches. The ball settles in the net but can't come through. I've got a AP throw-in same as lodging.
You have me confused with the Bobby Knight reference. Please clarify.

[Bart Tyson]

If the net is hung up and the ball rest in the net I think i would count the basket. I don't think i have seen this in a game. You got me thinking about this. Hmmmm.

[Slider]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
If the net is hung up and the ball rest in the net I think i would count the basket. I don't think i have seen this in a game. You got me thinking about this. Hmmmm.

Correct, when a ball remains in the basket, count the goal; someone already quoted this rule.

[Bart Tyson]

Originally posted by MOFFICIAL

You have me confused with the Bobby Knight reference. Please clarify. [/B]

It had to do with an opponent grabbing the rim and pulling the rim down(break away rim). I don't remember the details because i don't work men's. Lets say team B is winning by 3 points. Team A shoots a 3pointer, ball in air, end of game horn, B1 grabs the rim down, then the ball goes in. Old rule the basket did not count. I don't think this was the play in Bobby's game, but i believe they concluded this could happen. I think in Bobby's game, his player shot and the ball was on or in the basket and the opponent grabbed and pulled the rim down, then the ball went all the way through. Again i think this is the way it went. Now the officials did not allow the basket and Bobby lost it(imagine that) Bobby got a T. The officials were correct and the changed the rule.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by MOFFICIAL

Bart,
I am now clear that the ball must come out of the bottom of the net to be considered a good goal. Let me propose this:
Shot is in the air and tall guy spins to block out and hits the net that then wraps and catches. The ball settles in the net but can't come through. I've got a AP throw-in same as lodging.
You have me confused with the Bobby Knight reference. Please clarify.

This would be the wrong ruling. THe ball remained in the basket. Count it.

[MOFFICIAL]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
Lotto is correct. Must clear the net. This came up years ago when a dunk hit the dunker's head and bounce up and out. Now, having said this we have the Bobby Knight rule when it is the opponent.

Bart you've got me confused again.
I assumed by ball clearing the net you meant that the ball had to come out of the net. If the ball passes through or stays in the net the goal should count. Right?

[Bart Tyson]

Originally posted by MOFFICIAL

Bart you've got me confused again.
I assumed by ball clearing the net you meant that the ball had to come out of the net. If the ball passes through or stays in the net the goal should count. Right?

Correct