It threw me off

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Cajun Reff

if you were on 3 when they ran the double pass play then you should have esaily had a 5 second count if you had not blown the whistle.

On count 3 when the ball is passed to another player still out of bounds, count 3 to 4 when the ball is in the air, count 4/5 when the ball is caught still out of bounds, count 5 when the ball is being passed to a player in bounds = an almost sure 5 seconds violation

I don't see this logic.
It takes maybe a quarter of second for the ball to go from one player to another when they are close. And the way you word this, it looks as if you'd call a 5 second violation if the actual throwin pass hasn't touched an inbounds player before you hit 5.

[Cajun Reff]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I don't see this logic.
It takes maybe a quarter of second for the ball to go from one player to another when they are close. And the way you word this, it looks as if you'd call a 5 second violation if the actual throwin pass hasn't touched an inbounds player before you hit 5.

he said he was ON 3 when A1 passed to A2 out of bounds - how close do you think they are? 10 feet? 15 feet? 20 feet? I coached boys varsity for ten years before picking up a whistle and the way we taught this play is this:

Reff hands A1 the ball, A1 immediately sprints to a corner with the ball, A2 steps completely out of bounds in the middle of the court under the basket, A1 throws to A2 and then steps across the end line, A1 then cuts directly in front of A2 in a diagonal line clearing the defender, A2 inbounds to A1. I have seen teams run it where they keep A1 with the ball in the middle and A2 goes out of bounds in the corner, A1 throws it to A2 and the steps in. Under this scenario, when A1 steps in to receive the inbounds from A2 (who is standing OOB in the corner) A1's diagonal cut takes him towards the sideline to catch the inbounds from A2 and that is usually bad when being trapped.

so if the reff was ON 3 when the ball was thrown to A2 (starting the sequence), how do you possibly think that A1 could throw the ball 15-20 feet in the air, A2 could catch it and make a return pass to A1 in LESS than 2 seconds? - remember he said he was ON 3 when A1 made the pass to A2. I don't think it is even remotely possible to execute that play in less than 2 seconds. especially considering the fact that these were mere 6th graders.

Anyway the 5 second count aspect is NOT what confused him, he didnt know the rule about the double pass on a made basket. That being said, if he had known the rule he should have easily had a 5 second violation because in this instance A1 started the double pass play way TOO LATE in the 5 second count. that was the only point I was trying to make here.

[Junker]

It is just something you need to learn and be patient with. This rarely happens in games. I saw it twice this season at the varsity level which is twice more than the previous season. It does make you think for a split second even after you've been around for a while.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Cajun Reff

so if the reff was ON 3 when the ball was thrown to A2 (starting the sequence), how do you possibly think that A1 could throw the ball 15-20 feet in the air, A2 could catch it and make a return pass to A1 in LESS than 2 seconds? - remember he said he was ON 3 when A1 made the pass to A2. I don't think it is even remotely possible to execute that play in less than 2 seconds. especially considering the fact that these were mere 6th graders.

Anyway the 5 second count aspect is NOT what confused him, he didnt know the rule about the double pass on a made basket. That being said, if he had known the rule he should have easily had a 5 second violation because in this instance A1 started the double pass play way TOO LATE in the 5 second count. that was the only point I was trying to make here.

I disagree with your 5 second interpretation. A2 only needs to release his pass prior to the 5 second violation. A1 does not have to catch it.

[Cajun Reff]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I disagree with your 5 second interpretation. A2 only needs to release his pass prior to the 5 second violation. A1 does not have to catch it.

I get what you are saying but we over analyzed this to point where the patient isnt breathing anymore and should be ruled clinically dead.


he said A1 passed the ball when he was already on count 3. I just dont see how the ball can be in flight after the 3 count on the way to 4 count, caught and released by a 6th grade boy in less than the 2 seconds left unless they are standing within 10 feet of one another and A2 taps the ball in the air back to A1 and doesnt actually catch it.

I am of the opinion that count 4 passes with the ball in flight, and count 5 is on the catch OOB by A2 and A2 never gets to make an inbounds pass attempt because 5 seconds is up before A2 releases the ball

but anyway, I am moving on from it because we dont have any hairs left to split

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Cajun Reff

he said A1 passed the ball when he was already on count 3. I just dont see how the ball can be in flight after the 3 count on the way to 4 count, caught and released by a 6th grade boy in less than the 2 seconds left unless they are standing within 10 feet of one another and A2 taps the ball in the air back to A1 and doesnt actually catch it.

I am of the opinion that count 4 passes with the ball in flight, and count 5 is on the catch OOB by A2 and A2 never gets to make an inbounds pass attempt because 5 seconds is up before A2 releases the ball

but anyway, I am moving on from it because we dont have any hairs left to split

Yes, we do. You're over-thinking the heck outa this one imo. It ain't brain surgery.

An official should never worry about what is happening during the 5 seconds allowed for a throw-in, unless something illegal is being done. Instead, you just count to 5 without getting into anticipating, assuming, opinionating or even thinking about anything else. The age and skill level of the players is never relevant either. If the ball hasn't started on it's way in-bounds on a throw-in when you reach 5, you blow your whistle and call a violation. It's that simple.

Just fuggedabout everything else.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Cajun Reff

I just dont see how the ball can be in flight after the 3 count on the way to 4 count, caught and released by a 6th grade boy in less than the 2 seconds left unless they are standing within 10 feet of one another and A2 taps the ball in the air back to A1 and doesnt actually catch it.

Where does the OP say that A2 passed or even attempted to pass the ball back to A1? A1 could easily pass to A2, who could then inbound to a player on the court within 2 seconds.