Big Sky Suspends 3 Men's Officials

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by just another ref

OK, time's up. Nobody gave the answer I was looking for. As I read it, this would be a technical foul, whether the ref got any air in the whistle before the buzzer or not. 10-1-7 states that a team shall not "request an excessive time-out." No mention of granting the timeout.

The request for timeout and the granting of the timeout are two different things. The granting (whistle) stops the clock, not the request by the coach. If the granting or attempt to grant (whistle) comes after no time on the clock, after the horn, then you can't have a time out or a technical foul. (R6.7.5&6)

In your scenario, "technical whether the ref got any air in the whistle or not" under 10-1-7 team shall not request an excessive time-out. If the ball is loose with no team control, Team A is trying to call timeout to stop the clock and you are aware team A has no timeout, which shouldn't matter whether you grant the timeout, you couldn't grant the time out because there is no team control, but in your application of the rule, you would issue a technical foul because they attempted to request an excessive timeout. IMO that's not the correct application of the rule.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

The request for timeout and the granting of the timeout are two different things. The granting (whistle) stops the clock, not the request by the coach. If the granting or attempt to grant (whistle) comes after no time on the clock, after the horn, then you can't have a time out or a technical foul. (R6.7.5&6)

In your scenario, "technical whether the ref got any air in the whistle or not" under 10-1-7 team shall not request an excessive time-out. If the ball is loose with no team control, Team A is trying to call timeout to stop the clock and you are aware team A has no timeout, which shouldn't matter whether you grant the timeout, you couldn't grant the time out because there is no team control, but in your application of the rule, you would issue a technical foul because they attempted to request an excessive timeout. IMO that's not the correct application of the rule.

This was what I intended in opening this up for discussion. As written, the request is what earns the technical. Period. 10-1-7 makes no mention of granting the timeout. Also, on another thread regarding granting a timeout quickly before the player landed out of bounds, several people here stated that the granting of a time out was a mental act which occurred instantly when the request was recognized, and had nothing to do with when the whistle sounded afterward. So, if one accepts these things, how can it not be a T if an excessive timeout is requested before the buzzer? Is it another one of those "just cuz" things?

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by just another ref

This was what I intended in opening this up for discussion. As written, the request is what earns the technical. Period. 10-1-7 makes no mention of granting the timeout. Also, on another thread regarding granting a timeout quickly before the player landed out of bounds, several people here stated that the granting of a time out was a mental act which occurred instantly when the request was recognized, and had nothing to do with when the whistle sounded afterward. So, if one accepts these things, how can it not be a T if an excessive timeout is requested before the buzzer? Is it another one of those "just cuz" things?

You're making my point regarding Requesting vs. Granting. If A1 or coach requests a timeout, excessive or not, simultaneously at the buzzer or a millisecond before the buzzer and the buzzer goes off before I can grant the timeout, excessive or not, I'm not granting the timeout. If a player requests timeout before he commits a violation then I am granting the timeout before the violation. The whistle is already in my mouth and should take a millisecond to put air in it. I had a sitch last week in a regional semi-final game. I'm administering the throw-in and I complete my five in my five second count, at the same time I blow my whistle for the violation, the player inbounding requests a time out. I have a violation.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

You're making my point regarding Requesting vs. Granting.

What is your point? The request is simple enough. When a timeout is granted is a gray area which is not specified very well.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by just another ref

What is your point? The request is simple enough. When a timeout is granted is a gray area which is not specified very well.

R.5-8-3 should take care of that gray area for you.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

The request for timeout and the granting of the timeout are two different things. The granting (whistle) stops the clock, not the request by the coach. If the granting or attempt to grant (whistle) comes after no time on the clock, after the horn, then you can't have a time out or a technical foul. (R6.7.5&6)

What does 6.7.5&6 have to do with this?

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by just another ref

What does 6.7.5&6 have to do with this?

That specifies when and how the ball becomes dead via the Officials Whistle (article 5) and end of the period (article 6). It doesn't become dead at the sound of the coaches or players voice when requesting a timeout.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

That specifies when and how the ball becomes dead via the Officials Whistle (article 5) and end of the period (article 6). It doesn't become dead at the sound of the coaches or players voice when requesting a timeout.

This is exactly what I said in the earlier thread. granting time-out as player goes oob

Everybody else here rolled their eyes when I suggested this. If this is true, when the airborne player requests a timeout then lands out of bounds before the whistle/signal, he commits a violation. The consensus was that when the official recognizes the legal request, it is considered to be instantly granted, so the interval before the signal is irrelevant, and no violation. If all this is true, if I recognize a timeout request before the buzzer, and the team has no timeout, how can it not be a technical?