Big Sky Suspends 3 Men's Officials

[VTOfficial]

Anyone still remember the 1993 Michigan/North Carolina NCAA championship game? That timeout wasn't ignored.

[lpneck]

I love this play, because of the inherent discussion of "game management" vs. "rulebook" officiating that always occurs on this website.

This is a great example of why it is important to know both.

Here are my points:

1.) If I can get away with ignoring a time-out request by a player on a team that doesn't have one with one second to go in a tie game 84 feet from their basket, you are darn right that good game management dictates to do so and allow the game to go to overtime. We always talk about patient whistles. If I can be patient for one second- bang, time is expired, we're going to OT, and nobody cares.

HOWEVER

2.) Once that discretion has not been utilized, and one of the officials has put air in the whistle, it is too late to take it back. You HAVE to go to the monitor now, and if the whistle blew before time expired, you HAVE to grant the timeout and assess the technical foul and put the appropriate time on the clock.

It seems to me like they tried to have it both ways here and got burned for it. They didn't manage the clock well as time expired, and once they made that mistake, they didn't manage the rule book well either.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by lpneck

1.) If I can get away with ignoring a time-out request by a player on a team that doesn't have one with one second to go in a tie game 84 feet from their basket, you are darn right that good game management dictates to do so and allow the game to go to overtime. We always talk about patient whistles. If I can be patient for one second- bang, time is expired, we're going to OT, and nobody cares.

Following this logic, do you also ignore a last second foul?

[just another ref]

This provokes another question. NFHS rules A1 requests a timeout with time running out in a tie game. The official definitely hears the request before the buzzer, but the buzzer sounds before the whistle. Nobody has definite knowledge of the time involved, but the request was definitely before the buzzer. What's the call?

[lpneck]

Originally Posted by just another ref

This provokes another question. NFHS rules A1 requests a timeout with time running out in a tie game. The official definitely hears the request before the buzzer, but the buzzer sounds before the whistle. Nobody has definite knowledge of the time involved, but the request was definitely before the buzzer. What's the call?

You didn't grant a time out before time expired, so there is no time out.

That's the whole point. There was one second to go, be patient, make sure you saw what happened, and by then, time is expired and you don't have to worry about it.

If there were 5 or 10 seconds remaining, you would probably have to handle it differently.

[mightyvol]

I am going to protest my losing wager that was placed on Idaho St +3.5. I feel robbed.........lol

[lpneck]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Following this logic, do you also ignore a last second foul?

Is that what I said?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by lpneck

Is that what I said?

You didn't say, that's why I had to ask. You ignore one thing which should be a technical foul, I wondered if you would ignore anything else.

[Mark Dexter]

This press release and the NCAA rulebook tend to indicate that any one of the officials can go look at the monitor. Who's the final arbiter on whether you go to TV or not, though? What if U1 thinks the crew should review something, but R says they shouldn't?

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

This press release and the NCAA rulebook tend to indicate that any one of the officials can go look at the monitor. Who's the final arbiter on whether you go to TV or not, though? What if U1 thinks the crew should review something, but R says they shouldn't?

A good question. Regardless of whether or not any official can look at the monitor, I'm wondering if it's the R that determines IF they're going to look at the monitor, and if so, WHO will look at it. So if the R decides, "No, we're not going to replay for this", then he is essentially putting the other 2 in a bad position. I'm not sure how the suspension process works or if officials are contacted prior to any suspension, but I would hope in your example, that U1 would be able to state his/her case, and that the other 2 would at least verify U1s request to go to replay which was eventually shot down.

[lpneck]

Originally Posted by just another ref

You didn't say, that's why I had to ask. You ignore one thing which should be a technical foul, I wondered if you would ignore anything else.

JAR, please tell me how you would handle the following situations:

1.) You are working the first game of the year in your town's local 6-year old league. During a dead ball, Coach A says "Billy, you sub into the game for Johnny!" Billy jumps up and down, smiles at his grandparents who are in the first row of the bleachers, and runs straight out onto the floor without being beckoned.

2.) You are working a middle school basketball game. The home team has on gold jerseys that were worn by the high school varsity team 8 years ago.

3.) You are working your state's high school championship game. It is a tie game with 20 seconds remaining. A1 dribbles into a trap and is facing an enormous amount of defensive pressure. Coach A comes up the sideline to where you are trail officiating the play yelling "TIME OUT! TIME OUT!" As you glance to make sure the coach is requesting a time out, you notice he is two feet past the line of his coaching box.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by lpneck

JAR, please tell me how you would handle the following situations:

1.) You are working the first game of the year in your town's local 6-year old league. During a dead ball, Coach A says "Billy, you sub into the game for Johnny!" Billy jumps up and down, smiles at his grandparents who are in the first row of the bleachers, and runs straight out onto the floor without being beckoned.

2.) You are working a middle school basketball game. The home team has on gold jerseys that were worn by the high school varsity team 8 years ago.

3.) You are working your state's high school championship game. It is a tie game with 20 seconds remaining. A1 dribbles into a trap and is facing an enormous amount of defensive pressure. Coach A comes up the sideline to where you are trail officiating the play yelling "TIME OUT! TIME OUT!" As you glance to make sure the coach is requesting a time out, you notice he is two feet past the line of his coaching box.

Well, let me put in my 2 cents - the first two plays really have nothing to do with the OP, since they have to do with little kid's games. The 3rd play might be closer, but it is still HS vs. college. However, all of these plays revolve around a fairly simple principle - how do the "powers-that-be" want these plays called? In the kid's games, I'm sure most coaches, administrators, and assignors would want you to ignore these T's. In the HS championship game, I know in our state the officials assigned will have a meeting the night before with the state's head of officials and head clinician, and these types of situations will be discussed. The officials will know ahead of time whether the coaching box is to be strictly enforced to the letter, or what type of leeway will be allowed.

In the OP, it is still not entirely clear to me the L saw and ignored the request. It is not stated that way in the article, but it is mentioned as the OP's "understanding" of what happened. We do know, though, that the NCAA does not want a excess TO request to be ignored. We also know that what got the officials in trouble was not going to the monitor in this situation, to see if the request and therefore the T, was before the horn sounded.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by lpneck

1.) You are working the first game of the year in your town's local 6-year old league. During a dead ball, Coach A says "Billy, you sub into the game for Johnny!" Billy jumps up and down, smiles at his grandparents who are in the first row of the bleachers, and runs straight out onto the floor without being beckoned.

.................

2.) You are working a middle school basketball game. The home team has on gold jerseys that were worn by the high school varsity team 8 years ago.

....................

3.) You are working your state's high school championship game. It is a tie game with 20 seconds remaining. A1 dribbles into a trap and is facing an enormous amount of defensive pressure. Coach A comes up the sideline to where you are trail officiating the play yelling "TIME OUT! TIME OUT!" As you glance to make sure the coach is requesting a time out, you notice he is two feet past the line of his coaching box.

grant the timeout

[MadCityRef]

How many last second-minute fouls have you seen NOT called this year? NCAA or otherwise.

The prevailing thought is not to influence the outcome, let the players decide. But if a player fouls and it's not called, haven't we just influenced the outcome, something we loathe to do?

If a kid travels before making the winning basket, do you call that? What's the difference between that and not calling the foul to put the kid on the line?

[TRef21]

All 3 on this crew are caliber officials.
One of the officials last year worked pretty deep in the tourney.
I don't like to drop names. I don't understand why in a play like that if you have the ability to go the monitor why not do it. Even if you are right, it's better to be safe than sorry.