What do we have here?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

That is a matter of judgement by the ref.

I was going by what the tape shows. Purely an objective statement.

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

The ref will have to sort the sequence of when the foul occurred in relationship to the play on the floor. I will not deny there seems to be an argument for you case, however, by the time the signal is started by the ref, the shooter is clearly in the act. In fact, the shot is away before the ref completes the signal.

Who cares when the signal is given? That's not the determining factor. It's when the act occurs.

[Ref in PA]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Who cares when the signal is given? That's not the determining factor. It's when the act occurs.

I agree completely. I only pointed out the signal, because we are observers of a tape. My comment was about you saying the infraction "clearly" happens before the shot. To me, it is not that crystal clear when the T occurs. I was merely pointing out what I saw on the tape that cause doubt in my mind to your absolute statement. What was black and white to you was not so clear-cut to me.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

I agree completely. I only pointed out the signal, because we are observers of a tape. My comment was about you saying the infraction "clearly" happens before the shot. To me, it is not that crystal clear when the T occurs. I was merely pointing out what I saw on the tape that cause doubt in my mind to your absolute statement. What was black and white to you was not so clear-cut to me.

You are correct. From the video we have, we can only tell when the signal occurs. We can not tell when the T itself occurs. It MAY be with the waving of the arms but it may be for words that followed the arm movements but are not discernable on the video.

As for the contact... It is certainly not flagrant. If we ignore the T for a moment, how many would call that contact intentional had it occurred in isolation. I'm sure there are a few, and perhaps several, here that would only call a common foul. It is arguable that the contact could be ignored if the ball is dead.