What do we have here?

ca_rumperee · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 25, 2008, 01:29pm

Now, first of all... this is NOT from my infamous foul fest fifth graders!

How do we sort this out?

From the youTube summary about the play:

Quote:

Etzella Ettelbrück player Justice Sueing commits an unsportmanlike foul on T71 Dudelange player Chris Martin, just a second after a technical foul is called on the coach Carsten Steiner by the referee.

I don't think the sound is matched to the video.
Don't hear a whistle for the original technical on the coach.
If you are calling that technical, are you deeming the ball to be dead at that point?
How would you sort for live ball foul on shooter?
How would you sort for dead ball contact?

Raymond · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 25, 2008, 01:47pm

I don't think your little "embedding" toy worked.

ma_ref · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 25, 2008, 02:12pm

Regarding the coach who got T'd, is he the coach for the team on offense or defense? I'm assuming defense, but I wanted to verify...

Scrapper1 · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 25, 2008, 02:12pm

Assuming that the T was on the defensive coach, the ball remains live and the correct call is an intentional personal foul. Shoot 2 free throws for the T, then 3 free throws for the intentional, then ball back to the offense on the sideline.

If the T was against the offensive coach, then the ball does become dead immediately. However, the contact is so excessive that I believe an intentional technical foul would be warranted. So 2 shots to the defensive team for the coach's T, then 2 shots to the offensive team for the intentional T, then the ball goes to the offensive team at midcourt opposite the table.

Bearfanmike20 · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 25, 2008, 02:30pm

The coach was the coach of the white team.

If you see right after the foul you see a player on the left stand up.. wearing a white jersey.

Offensive coach T.

Scrapper1 · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 25, 2008, 02:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20

The coach was the coach of the white team.

If you see right after the foul you see a player on the left stand up.. wearing a white jersey.

Good thought, but I'm not sure that's a bench player. He's just wearing a t-shirt, not a uniform jersey. You could very well be correct, but it might be a fan behind the bench.

Back In The Saddle · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 25, 2008, 02:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Good thought, but I'm not sure that's a bench player. He's just wearing a t-shirt, not a uniform jersey. You could very well be correct, but it might be a fan behind the bench.

Could also be a warm-up top. Two people to the right of the white shirt dood could be assistant coaches, in suits. But what about the one to his left. That would be an unusual place for an assistant.

crazy voyager · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 25, 2008, 02:58pm

Doesn't matter if the ball is dead or not, an intentional, technical or disqualifying fouls are allways reported no matter of the status of the ball.
If the T is on offensive coach then we have 2 FT for defense, then 3 FT for offense then a throw-in opposite table for offensive team.
If the T is on the defensive coach we first have 2 shoots by any player, then 3 3 by the player who got fouled and then throw-in opposite the table.

Scrapper1 · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 25, 2008, 03:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazy voyager

If the T is on offensive coach then we have 2 FT for defense, then 3 FT for offense then a throw-in opposite table for offensive team.

I'm not familiar with FIBA rules, so could you explain why you'd have 3 free throws on a dead ball foul? Or maybe you're saying that the ball would not be dead? But I don't see how that could be. . . I'm not doubting you at all, I just am curious about the rationale for it. Thanks.

MadCityRef · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 25, 2008, 04:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Assuming that the T was on the defensive coach, the ball remains live.

What?

MadCityRef · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 25, 2008, 04:17pm

The next clip, "Tech Foul Girls Basketball" is interesting. Notice where the ball is in-bounded after the time out. (1:30 in)

It's also an example of why we need to get the first foul.

Mt. Sinai Mustangs were home. The ref patch looked large and red. Anyone know where?

MOFFICIAL · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 25, 2008, 04:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ca_rumperee

Now, first of all... this is NOT from my infamous foul fest fifth graders!

How do we sort this out?

From the youTube summary about the play:

I don't think the sound is matched to the video.
Don't hear a whistle for the original technical on the coach.
If you are calling that technical, are you deeming the ball to be dead at that point?
How would you sort for live ball foul on shooter?
How would you sort for dead ball contact?

I have an T on the head coach regardless of whether his team is on O or D. I have a flagrant technical and ejection on dark jersey player for his action.
Two free throws lane cleared penalizing the T.
Two free throws lane cleared for white jersey shooter.
Ball OOB to white sideline opposite table.

ma_ref · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 25, 2008, 05:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOFFICIAL

I have an T on the head coach regardless of whether his team is on O or D. I have a flagrant technical and ejection on dark jersey player for his action.
Two free throws lane cleared penalizing the T.
Two free throws lane cleared for white jersey shooter.
Ball OOB to white sideline opposite table.

I disagree with the flagrant technical. Yes it was a hard foul, but I don't think it warrants an ejection and 1 game suspension (at least here in MA). No doubt the contact was excessive, and that's why I'd stick with an intentional technical/personal. Based on the footage, it looks like the defender made an attempt at the ball (he jumped with his arms outstretched). If he wanted to be malicious, he wouldn't have jumped and just could've undercut the shooter, or else would've gone shoulder-first towards the shooter like a football block. The only way I'd have flagrant is if these 2 teams were jarring with each other all night and maybe there were a couple of hard fouls previously, or if there's a bad history in the rivalry of these 2 schools.

Bad Zebra · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 25, 2008, 05:08pm

I don't see a flagrant foul there either. Definitely a hard foul, but defender looked to be legitimately attempting to block a shot to me.

WhistlesAndStripes · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 25, 2008, 09:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadCityRef

The next clip, "Tech Foul Girls Basketball" is interesting. Notice where the ball is in-bounded after the time out. (1:30 in)

You can't see for sure where the player was when the timeout was granted, but it looks like a reasonable spot based on the approximate area of the dribbler.