Finished ...

[BillyMac]

Finished up my high school season today with the #1 versus #4 seeded teams in the Eastern Deaf School Athletic Association Divison I tournament. A team from Maryland, whose coach also coaches the USA Deaf Olympics team, against a team from New Jersey.

The afternoon started with the host team athletic director, who can hear, and normally signs for the officials at the pregame coaches/captains meeting, being a a little late, so one of the captains volunteered to read my lips and sign for the others. I assume he did a good job signing, but of course I have no way of knowing. For all I know he may have signed "The officials say that they are a pair of idiots, who are only in this for the money, and for the free food, and beverages, in the lounge, and that they would appreciate it if we don't mind them walking during the game because they're still tired from last nights game".

Lots of odd calls, none that had anything to do with the players being deaf. My partner and I each called an intentional fouls on the New Jersey team for grabbiing jerseys from behind to prevent breakaway layups. My partner called a throwin violation for a player who forgot it was a designated spot and moved along the endline. We had a delayed free throw violation as the players in the first and third lane space switched positions after the ball was at the disposal of the shooter. My partner prevented a double free throw violation by asking an offensive player to vacate the first lane space. Also had a player score his 1000th point.

The Maryland coach sat in his chair the entire game, only standing to call a time out. Does Maryland have a "seatbelt" rule? The New Jersey team had two coaches standing and coaching during the first few minutes. I wondered if the assistant was signing for the head coach. Finally, I stopped the game, and using the lipreading player to sign, I asked the coaches if the head coach could sign, he replied yes, so I asked the assistant to please sit down, which he did the rest of the game.

One tough call. A1 gets offensive rebound near the basket, goes to shot the ball, and is grabbed on the forearm by B1. I blow my whistle for a foul on B1. A1 doesn't complete the shooting motion, at first due to the foul, but after B1 releases the forearm of A1, A1 brings the ball back down, in kind of a double pump motion, before shooting it again. Before the ball has a chance to go in, I yell, "No shot", because I don't want the basket to count if it goes in, it doesn't, but I do award two shots for A1 being fouled in the act of shooting, that is his first shot motion, not his second shot motion. How far does continuation continue? Was this the correct call?

Special Olympics Unified Games in a few weeks, then our board's banquet, and then, sadly, it's over until next season.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

One tough call. A1 gets offensive rebound near the basket, goes to shot the ball, and is grabbed on the forearm by B1. I blow my whistle for a foul on B1. A1 doesn't complete the shooting motion, at first due to the foul, but after B1 releases the forearm of A1, A1 brings the ball back down, in kind of a double pump motion, before shooting it again. Before the ball has a chance to go in, I yell, "No shot", because I don't want the basket to count if it goes in, it doesn't, but I do award two shots for A1 being fouled in the act of shooting, that is his first shot motion, not his second shot motion. How far does continuation continue? Was this the correct call?

No, it was not if he's airborne.

There's no such thing as a "second shot motion." If he releases the shot before he returns to the floor, the basket counts. The act of shooting does not end until an airborne shooter returns to the floor.

[MadCityRef]

If A1 makes any movement associated with attempting a shot, shoot 2.

[truerookie]

[quote=BillyMac]
One tough call. A1 gets offensive rebound near the basket, goes to shot the ball, and is grabbed on the forearm by B1. I blow my whistle for a foul on B1. A1 doesn't complete the shooting motion, at first due to the foul, but after B1 releases the forearm of A1, A1 brings the ball back down, in kind of a double pump motion, before shooting it again. Before the ball has a chance to go in, I yell, "No shot", because I don't want the basket to count if it goes in, it doesn't, but I do award two shots for A1 being fouled in the act of shooting, that is his first shot motion, not his second shot motion. How far does continuation continue? Was this the correct call?

In the judgement of the official, the grab by B1 causes A1 from continuing the shooting motion. The official should award A1 with 2 shots due to being in the act of shooting.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by MadCityRef

If A1 makes any movement associated with attempting a shot, shoot 2.

Originally Posted by truerookie

In the judgement of the official, the grab by B1 causes A1 from continuing the shooting motion. The official should award A1 with 2 shots due to being in the act of shooting.

Guys, that's not what he's asking.

He knows the kid is in the act of shooting. But he's stating that since the shooter didn't complete the shot, he can't shoot it after the contact, even though he hasn't returned to the floor.

Re-read the post.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Guys, that's not what he's asking.

He knows the kid is in the act of shooting. But he's stating that since the shooter didn't complete the shot, he can't shoot it after the contact, even though he hasn't returned to the floor.

Re-read the post.

OP doesn't say anything about him being off the floor. I picture a pump fake, then as he starts to put it up and gets grabbed. If this is the case, (Billy Mac, you wanna clarify this?) one could rule that the try ended and wave off the shot if another one begins, correct?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I picture a pump fake, then as he starts to put it up and gets grabbed. If this is the case, (Billy Mac, you wanna clarify this?) one could rule that the try ended and wave off the shot if another one begins, correct?

I suppose one could rule that if one was a mind reader. See rule 4-11-2. If the shooter can fight through the foul and get the ball in flight, count the basket if it goes in.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

One tough call. A1 gets offensive rebound near the basket, goes to shot the ball, and is grabbed on the forearm by B1. I blow my whistle for a foul on B1. A1 doesn't complete the shooting motion, at first due to the foul, but after B1 releases the forearm of A1, A1 brings the ball back down, in kind of a double pump motion, before shooting it again. Before the ball has a chance to go in, I yell, "No shot", because I don't want the basket to count if it goes in, it doesn't, but I do award two shots for A1 being fouled in the act of shooting, that is his first shot motion, not his second shot motion. How far does continuation continue? Was this the correct call?

Continuous motion doesn't end until a ball is in the air, as per rule 4-11-2. If the shooter can fight through the foul and get the shot off, count the basket if it goes.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I suppose one could rule that if one was a mind reader. See rule 4-11-2. If the shooter can fight through the foul and get the ball in flight, count the basket if it goes in.

It has nothing to do with being a mind reader. B1 grabs A1's arm and effectively stops his shot. After the foul call, B1 releases the arm. How long did all this take? Uhhhh, I think, not very long? A1 quickly throws up another shot, which even if it goes in, does not count. Shoot 2.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Guys, that's not what he's asking.

He knows the kid is in the act of shooting. But he's stating that since the shooter didn't complete the shot, he can't shoot it after the contact, even though he hasn't returned to the floor.

Re-read the post.

I read the post. A1 was in the act of shooting was grabbed by B1(holding) foul!; whistle; pump fake; shot; disallow the shot. A1 will shoot 2 for being in the act of shooting.

[BktBallRef]

Where did you read anything about a pump fake?

A player who pump fakes does not get consideration for continuation or being in the act of shooting because he is NOT shooting.

[BillyMac]

Wow. I didn't expect this situation to be so controversial.

I know it's tough to describe a play like this in words. Heck, I was there, and I have trouble replaying it in my mind.

1) I know that the shooter was not airborne. He was a little on the "husky" side, and didn't do much jumping during the game. However, I am interested in how the call would be different if he was airborne?

2) I didn't use the term "pump fake" because that's not what I saw, especially the kind of "pump fake" that would cause many of us to call a three second violation on the shooter despite the exception to the rule. This can best be described as a "double pump". In other words, it looked like, if I had not blown the whistle for the foul, he was going to try to shot "again" after having it blocked the first time.

Hope this helps. Play on ....

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

1) I know that the shooter was not airborne. He was a little on the "husky" side, and didn't do much jumping during the game. However, I am interested in how the call would be different if he was airborne?

If he had been airborne, you would have a definitive end to the try, that being when he returned to the floor. Otherwise, I would say that no matter what else happened, if he managed to release the ball before coming down, the shot would count.

[ajs8207]

I officiate in Maryland. There is no seat belt rule that I have ever heard of.