3 seconds

[emtp]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

There's no tongue lashing involved nor was anything like that ever intended. I was just wondering about the phrases you used. They seem to be quite common lately in different forms. Maybe it's just me, but most of the time it seems that the so-called "game interrupters" being discussed are just your normal, every-day judgment calls.

Sometimes, we tend to think waaaaaay too much about some of the calls that we make imo.

I'm smileing and having fun, that's why I like to read this board, thanks for the reply

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

emtp: Duck. Here it comes. Get ready. As for me, I'm choosing to sit this one out, sit back, and watch the fireworks.

I'm quoting myself. I saw this coming a mile away. You may now continue.

[actuary77]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread.

I read through all the replies and I just wanted to clarify one thing. I understand all the rules about when the 3-second rule should apply (i.e. front court status, team control, allowance for shooting motion, etc.)...

Does there need to be PLAYER CONTROL for 3-seconds to be called? For example, if there is an interrupted dribble or if the ball handler loses control of the ball (but clearly still has team control since the other team hasn't gained control or the ball hasn't gone dead), should the 3-second count continue?

[ca_rumperee]

Originally Posted by actuary77

Sorry to resurrect an old thread.

I read through all the replies and I just wanted to clarify one thing. I understand all the rules about when the 3-second rule should apply (i.e. front court status, team control, allowance for shooting motion, etc.)...

Does there need to be PLAYER CONTROL for 3-seconds to be called? For example, if there is an interrupted dribble or if the ball handler loses control of the ball (but clearly still has team control since the other team hasn't gained control or the ball hasn't gone dead), should the 3-second count continue?

In my training this summer I was counseled by the gray-hairs... several said they could count the 3-second calls that they had made in the last year on one hand... suggesting that it was rarely a call that they made.

I take that to heart... "White get out of there!", "42 get out!!" usually does the trick. Unresponsive? while determined to get an advantage? (see 5th grade numbskulls) OK, 3 seconds!

---

anyways, the season starts, and I have several partners who are calling 3 seconds while the ball is being passed around the perimeter!! Lets segue to the "Pet Peeves" thread! Are you talking to them? Are they gaining advantage?

Bottom line, I believe that this call is often called because an official feels like they have a "gotcha!" moment. An official thinks to themselves, hey, this is a violation!

----

Anyways, in regards to player control... I've asked! Player falls in the key... ball on the floor... scrum... ball is squirting around... 3 seconds?? are you kidding me? Advantage gained by being on the floor fighting for a loose ball?


I don't think so.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by ca_rumperee

Anyways, in regards to player control... I've asked! Player falls in the key... ball on the floor... scrum... ball is squirting around... 3 seconds?? are you kidding me? Advantage gained by being on the floor fighting for a loose ball?


I don't think so.

If you want to look at it that way, the advantage is, all other things being equal, you allow the offensive player to commit a violation as he battles his defender for the ball.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by actuary77

Does there need to be PLAYER CONTROL for 3-seconds to be called? For example, if there is an interrupted dribble or if the ball handler loses control of the ball (but clearly still has team control since the other team hasn't gained control or the ball hasn't gone dead), should the 3-second count continue?

Yes it should. Team control still continues during an interupted dribble. I think that there used to be a case play, or rules clarification on this, but I can't seem to find it right now. Help???

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by actuary77

Sorry to resurrect an old thread.

I read through all the replies and I just wanted to clarify one thing. I understand all the rules about when the 3-second rule should apply (i.e. front court status, team control, allowance for shooting motion, etc.)...

Does there need to be PLAYER CONTROL for 3-seconds to be called? For example, if there is an interrupted dribble or if the ball handler loses control of the ball (but clearly still has team control since the other team hasn't gained control or the ball hasn't gone dead), should the 3-second count continue?

Yout two statements are inconsistent.

PC is not a requirement for the three-seconds call, by rule.

In practice, most officials seem to lose count during a "loose ball scrum" (and, yes, I know that's an undefined term)

[Adam]

If PC was required for a three second count, then the call would never get made. First, your count would start over every time there was a pass.

Second, consider the one time it usually gets called. A1 camps in the lane for a moment, then receives a pass. He turns to make a move, then passes out to the perimeter. This one usually gets whistled, but wouldn't be a violation if player control were required.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

In practice, most officials seem to lose count during a "loose ball scrum" (and, yes, I know that's an undefined term)

Good observation, and probalby true, maybe for good reason, even it is against the rules. Imagine that Team A is holding, passing, or dribbling the ball, in other words, in team control. The ball is tipped away by a defender, and the ball continues to be tipped back, and forth, like a pinball machine, between both Team A, and Team B, players, maybe for six or seven seconds. All eyes, except those of one of the officials, are watching this "scrum", fans, coaches, players, one official, scorekeeper, timekeeper, police officier, trainer, site director, priest (for Catholic schools), etc., for a possible travel, double dribble, foul, player control foul, out of bounds, held ball, etc., they're all anxiouslly awaiting the call, or noncall, as the ball is being tipped all over the place, when from far away a whistle blows, a hand is thrust into the air, and the other official yells, "three seconds". By rule, that official could, or would, be correct, but he or she, should be ready to take a lot of "heat" from half of the gym's attendance, and possibly, regarding the Team A coach, "Serve him a beverage: tea" © 2008 JugglingReferee

[actuary77]

So just to summarize...

Snaqwells, good point on 3-seconds almost never being called if PC was required (unless someone who has the ball just camps in the lane).

So it seems like even though the rule says that when there is a loose ball, the 3-seconds rule still apply since team control hasn't ended, most people here think that it's against the INTENT of the rule to call that because (a) it doesn't advantage/disadvantage either team and (b) it will look bad. I agree with this to a certain extent.

But taking it further... what if the rule intends to do that, i.e. when there is a loose ball and Team A technically still has control, that no Team A player should be camping out in the lane. Maybe that's what coaches should be teaching and what we should be calling??? Am I completely off base here?

Maybe there needs to be a clarification of the rule, like how they did it for interrupted dribble and kicking recently.

[Jim Henry]

Originally Posted by emtp

Had a partner last night at a district game who called two 3 second violations when the play was no where near the key and the player had nothing to do w/ the play. Ball is in the front court. Question is, and I do understand that yes it is a violation but, until she recieve's the ball or become's part of the play I may not call this because it is a play stopper and interrupts flow. Opinions

I can’t see showing much leniency in this example. IMO she IS part of the play. If a player is camping out in the lane you got to call it because she is gaining an advantage. She's under the basket waiting for the pass and I don’t care where the ball is in the FC.

Admittedly I have been a bit tolerant in grade school games and have allowed maybe 4 or 5 seconds but even in these games I’ll call it because it is so obvious and the kids need to learn.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Jim Henry

I can’t see showing much leniency in this example. IMO she IS part of the play. If a player is camping out in the lane you got to call it because she is gaining an advantage. She's under the basket waiting for the pass and I don’t care where the ball is in the FC.

You'd call 3 seconds on that with a dribbler out by the center line? You really think that the player in the lane is getting an advantage in that particular situation?

Good luck with that. The kindlier, gentler Jurassic Referee can only say "I beg to differ".

[Jim Henry]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You'd call 3 seconds on that with a dribbler out by the center line? You really think that the player in the lane is getting an advantage in that particular situation?

Good luck with that. The kindlier, gentler Jurassic Referee can only say "I beg to differ".

Well in that case, I'll be kind and gentle. I'll give her 5 seconds.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Jim Henry

Well in that case, I'll be kind and gentle. I'll give her 5 seconds.

With the dribbler still out at center?

Good luck with that. I still beg to differ.

Did you ever think of maybe whispering to the player in the lane that it might be a good idea for her to move her butt out of the lane? And then making the call if she ignores you?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The kindlier, gentler Jurassic Referee can only say "I beg to differ".

Well, that does it. Al Gore, as my grandmother used to say, is "Full of bologna". There can't be Global Warming if Hell is freezing over.