Unoccupied lane space

[Zoochy]

Is there any time that you would assess a Technical foul if an opponent does not occupy the 1st lane space during a Free Throw?

[Kelvin green]

Yes

[PSidbury]

Assuming NFHS:

So, where in the Rules Book does it state that the first marked lane spaces must be occupied by opponents of the free thrower?

Rule 8-1-4 states: "During a free throw when lane spaces may be occupied..."

It certainly does not state "when lane spaces must (or will) be occupied"

There is a difference between "you may occupy" and "you must occupy."
The former implies objective discretion, while the latter implies strict adherence.

Again, even 8-1-4b uses the word shall and not must or will be. And even that usage of shall is within the context of 8-1-4: "...when lane spaces may be occupied..." Which seems to say that if you choose (that objective discretion thing) to occupy the lane, then you shall do it a certain way.

Going to need another pair of eyes, because I cannot find clear language that must put an opponent on the first marked lane spaces.

There is clear language, however, that states when players shall not occupy the lane (ie., 8-1-3).

Can't find anything in 9-1 either, other than a reference back to 8-1-4.

Thanks,
Paul

[tjones1]

8-1-4b

It says "shall be," clear enough for me.

[jmaellis]

Originally Posted by PSidbury

Assuming NFHS:

So, where in the Rules Book does it state that the first marked lane spaces must be occupied by opponents of the free thrower?

Rule 8-1-4 states: "During a free throw when lane spaces may be occupied..."

It certainly does not state "when lane spaces must (or will) be occupied"

There is a difference between "you may occupy" and "you must occupy."
The former implies objective discretion, while the latter implies strict adherence.

Again, even 8-1-4b uses the word shall and not must or will be. And even that usage of shall is within the context of 8-1-4: "...when lane spaces may be occupied..." Which seems to say that if you choose (that objective discretion thing) to occupy the lane, then you shall do it a certain way.

Going to need another pair of eyes, because I cannot find clear language that must put an opponent on the first marked lane spaces.

There is clear language, however, that states when players shall not occupy the lane (ie., 8-1-3).

Can't find anything in 9-1 either, other than a reference back to 8-1-4.

Thanks,
Paul

What????? So, how is "shall not" any clearer or more definitive than "shall be" Or or that matter how is "shall be" any less definitive than "Shall Not"?

"Shall" is an absolute, nothing ambiguous about it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by PSidbury

Assuming NFHS:

So, where in the Rules Book does it state that the first marked lane spaces must be occupied by opponents of the free thrower?

Case book play 10.1.5SitC is one cite. There are other case plays too.

You're trying to read something into a clearly written rule that just isn't there.

[NCAAREF]

aux.v. past tense should (shd)
1. Used before a verb in the infinitive to show:
a. Something that will take place or exist in the future: We shall arrive tomorrow.
b. Something, such as an order, promise, requirement, or obligation: You shall leave now. He shall answer for his misdeeds. The penalty shall not exceed two years in prison.
c. The will to do something or have something take place: I shall go out if I feel like it.
d. Something that is inevitable: That day shall come.
2. Archaic
a. To be able to.
b. To have to; must.

[PSidbury]

Well... rest assured, I don't mince semantics on the court, players must occupy those lane spaces except in 8-1-3 situations.

However, I think 8-1-4 could use clearer language.

It definitely uses the word may instead of must, and for some of you to say that the usage of may makes it very clear... er, well, is not clear.

Forget it is basketball for five seconds and just read the sentence.

There is a difference between "You may reply to this post," which implies doing so is still your choice, versus "You must reply to this post," which implies clear adherence and gives you no choice.

Uh... yep, there is a difference between may and must.

Thanks,
Paul

[jmaellis]

Originally Posted by PSidbury

Well... rest assured, I don't mince semantics on the court, players must occupy those lane spaces except in 8-1-3 situations.

However, I think 8-1-4 could use clearer language.

It definitely uses the word may instead of must, and for some of you to say that the usage of may makes it very clear... er, well, is not clear.

Forget it is basketball for five seconds and just read the sentence.

There is a difference between "You may reply to this post," which implies doing so is still your choice, versus "You must reply to this post," which implies clear adherence and gives you no choice.

Uh... yep, there is a difference between may and must.

Thanks,
Paul

That's your problem, it's not a sentence, its a title. It could be a sentence, but not in this context.

Your fixation on "may" has blocked your ability to see the word "when." "When" is the focus word, not "may."

"During a free throw when lane spaces may be occupied..."

In other words: "The provisions listed below apply to those situations when it's permissible to occupy lane spaces, such as when 8-1-3 does not apply..."

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by jmaellis

That's your problem, it's not a sentence, its a title. It could be a sentence, but not in this context.

Your fixation on "may" has blocked your ability to see the word "when." "When" is the focus word, not "may."

"During a free throw when lane spaces may be occupied..."

In other words: "The provisions listed below apply to those situations when it's permissible to occupy lane spaces, such as when 8-1-3 does not apply..."

This is exactly the correct explanation. The "when lane spaces may be occupied" is in there to exempt free throw attempts when lane spaces may not be occupied - ie, intentional or technical foul shots, foul shots after the buzzer at a quarter.

When it is allowable for those spaces to be filled, then the first two shall be occupied by opponents of the free thrower. The remaining spaces may be occupied according to the rules.