Correctable Error FT Situation

[reddevil19]

Let me preface this with two things: 1. I was not present for this last night, so I didn't see it, but everything is confirmed. 2. I searched other threads before posting this to see if I could string some things together to answer my own questions. I'd just like some confirmations if I'm right, and a clarification of my thinking if I have misinterpreted what I read in other threads. As always, thanks in advance for your responses.

JV G, 4th quarter, 14.0 remaining, Home down 2pts.

H1 is fouled (non-shooting), and is Visitors 10th team foul, so H1 should be shooting the double bonus. Referee administering advises all players it is 1+1 and neither the other officials nor anyone else notices or says anything. H1 shoots and misses, legally obtains own rebound and scores to tie game. V1 inbounds ball to V2, who dribbles ahead and is unable to get shot off, so regulation ends tied.

After regulation has ended, but before the ball has become live to start the OT, the officials determine that the FT's with 14.0 should have been a double bonus. The lead official (inexperienced) tells table and both coaches that the basket by H1 will be expunged, time will be set to 14.0 and the 2nd FT will be taken. Once play resumed, FT was missed, V gets rebound and dribbles out clock, Home loses.

I don't think this situation was handled correctly. From what I have read in other threads, the opportunity to correct this error closed when V inbounded the ball after H1's successful 2pt basket. If anything, shouldn't the OT been started with H's additional merited FT, and the a jump-ball?

[jdw3018]

You are correct that the error would have had to be noticed prior to the ball coming live after H1's made basket.

If it had been discovered after the made basket, the basket would still count, H1 would attempt the second free throw with the lane cleared, and then V would be given the ball for a throw-in on the end-line. They would be able to run the endline.

There is no way to cancel the basket unless the error was realized prior to the made basket.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by reddevil19

Let me preface this with two things: 1. I was not present for this last night, so I didn't see it, but everything is confirmed. 2. I searched other threads before posting this to see if I could string some things together to answer my own questions. I'd just like some confirmations if I'm right, and a clarification of my thinking if I have misinterpreted what I read in other threads. As always, thanks in advance for your responses.

JV G, 4th quarter, 14.0 remaining, Home down 2pts.

H1 is fouled (non-shooting), and is Visitors 10th team foul, so H1 should be shooting the double bonus. Referee administering advises all players it is 1+1 and neither the other officials nor anyone else notices or says anything. H1 shoots and misses, legally obtains own rebound and scores to tie game. V1 inbounds ball to V2, who dribbles ahead and is unable to get shot off, so regulation ends tied.

The basket is good but A-1 does not get the other FT because the ball remained in play after the initial miss. So, we start overtime with jump ball at center circle. Case Book 2.10.1 Sit B

After regulation has ended, but before the ball has become live to start the OT, the officials determine that the FT's with 14.0 should have been a double bonus. The lead official (inexperienced) tells table and both coaches that the basket by H1 will be expunged, time will be set to 14.0 and the 2nd FT will be taken. Once play resumed, FT was missed, V gets rebound and dribbles out clock, Home loses.

I don't think this situation was handled correctly. From what I have read in other threads, the opportunity to correct this error closed when V inbounded the ball after H1's successful 2pt basket. If anything, shouldn't the OT been started with H's additional merited FT, and the a jump-ball?

The basket is good but A-1 does not get the other FT because the ball remained in play after the initial miss. So, we start overtime with jump ball at center circle. Case Book 2.10.1 Sit B

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by truerookie

The basket is good but A-1 does not get the other FT because the ball remained in play after the initial miss. So, we start overtime with jump ball at center circle. Case Book 2.10.1 Sit B

The reason for not awarding the other free throw has nothing to do with the ball remaining in play, but rather that the time period for a correctable error had passed. That's what 2.10.1 Sit B says.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

The reason for not awarding the other free throw has nothing to do with the ball remaining in play, but rather that the time period for a correctable error had passed. That's what 2.10.1 Sit B says.

It does, the time period for the correctable error passed is because the ball became live on the miss; dead on the successful shot and live again on the inbound. The case play cited is closest to his sit. Correct, time period had passed.

[ca_rumperee]

Originally Posted by reddevil19

JV G, 4th quarter, 14.0 remaining, Home down 2pts.

H1 is fouled (non-shooting), and is Visitors 10th team foul, so H1 should be shooting the double bonus. Referee administering advises all players it is 1+1 and neither the other officials nor anyone else notices or says anything. H1 shoots and misses, legally obtains own rebound and scores to tie game. V1 inbounds ball to V2, who dribbles ahead and is unable to get shot off, so regulation ends tied.

After regulation has ended, but before the ball has become live to start the OT, the officials determine that the FT's with 14.0 should have been a double bonus. The lead official (inexperienced) tells table and both coaches that the basket by H1 will be expunged, time will be set to 14.0 and the 2nd FT will be taken. Once play resumed, FT was missed, V gets rebound and dribbles out clock, Home loses.

My take is that this is correctable. The information is coming to the referees DURING the first dead ball AFTER the ball became live AFTER the error.

My understanding would be that everything that happened AFTER the original error is let stand... EVEN the fact that the first miss was converted to a basket. This is my understanding of correctable errors.. they can lead to inequitable situations.

So, here we are after regulation with a tied score...
H1 gets to go to the line and try her 2nd free throw. If good, game over. If missed, overtime.

That is my, "If I were there and on the spot" reaction to the above scenario.

I can't wait to post, and scroll down and see what the "right answer" will be... although I am confident that I am right... AND I know how to use the edit function!

[ca_rumperee]

Originally Posted by ca_rumperee

My take is that this is correctable. The information is coming to the referees DURING the first dead ball AFTER the ball became live AFTER the error.

My understanding would be that everything that happened AFTER the original error is let stand... EVEN the fact that the first miss was converted to a basket. This is my understanding of correctable errors.. they can lead to inequitable situations.

So, here we are after regulation with a tied score...
H1 gets to go to the line and try her 2nd free throw. If good, game over. If missed, overtime.

That is my, "If I were there and on the spot" reaction to the above scenario.

I can't wait to post, and scroll down and see what the "right answer" will be... although I am confident that I am right... AND I know how to use the edit function!

argh!

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by ca_rumperee

The information is coming to the referees DURING the first dead ball AFTER the ball became live AFTER the error.

After the clock has properly started.

I haven't read this whole thread so I'm not going to comment on the original situation. Consider this situation, however. A1 is fouled and is entitled to 2 free throws. After the whistle for the foul, several technical fouls are assessed. They aren't double fouls, so we're going to shoot lots of free throws.

Everything is penalized in order, but A1 is erroneously given a 1-and-1. Then we shoot 10 more free throws for the Ts. We've now had 10 live balls and dead balls. But since the clock hasn't started following the error, the original error is still correctable and we can give A1 the second free throw that he was entitled to.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

You are correct that the error would have had to be noticed prior to the ball coming live after H1's made basket.

If it had been discovered after the made basket, the basket would still count, H1 would attempt the second free throw with the lane cleared, and then V would be given the ball for a throw-in on the end-line. They would be able to run the endline.

There is no way to cancel the basket unless the error was realized prior to the made basket.

This is a correct answer.

The game should have continued with the score tied and the extra period beginning with a jump ball. The second FT attempt is lost as it is too late to correct that error.

PS Sounds as if that contest was officiated by SEC officials.

[ca_rumperee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

After the clock has properly started.

I haven't read this whole thread so I'm not going to comment on the original situation. Consider this situation, however. A1 is fouled and is entitled to 2 free throws. After the whistle for the foul, several technical fouls are assessed. They aren't double fouls, so we're going to shoot lots of free throws.

Everything is penalized in order, but A1 is erroneously given a 1-and-1. Then we shoot 10 more free throws for the Ts. We've now had 10 live balls and dead balls. But since the clock hasn't started following the error, the original error is still correctable and we can give A1 the second free throw that he was entitled to.

I understand my error by using become live instead of "clock properly started". How about for kicks in the OP we say that on the first missed free throw try, the clock operator failed to start the clock on the rebound and putback? Now we have a 'fine kettle of fish!'

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ca_rumperee

I understand my error by using become live instead of "clock properly started". How about for kicks in the OP we say that on the first missed free throw try, the clock operator failed to start the clock on the rebound and putback? Now we have a 'fine kettle of fish!'

No we don't. Use "clock properly started or should have started" as the intent of the rule.