Pre-game Convo With Parent

[psujaye]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Me: It's got metal in it.

Any guard,cast or brace with metal in it is always illegal.... up the elbow. Above the elbow, it must be padded.

Yes, I agree, i don't know why i used 'hard and restrictive' vs. 'it has metal in it'. I'm not sure if that had an impact on how the rest of the conversation went.

[rockyroad]

You didn't hurt anything by talking with the dad. Your only other alternative would have been to ignore him or turn and walk away from him or something equally rude - would that have helped the situation or only made it worse? Seems to me like you handled it well. If the guy gets belligerent, walk over to the table, get game management and let them deal with it.

I would be calling the (insert twice previously name-dropped assignor here) and asking him if he actually did approve the brace. If he did, ask why? If he didn't, he probably wants to know that there is some schmuck out there saying he did.

[daveg144]

From the description, it sounds like an illegal brace. However, if, for some reason, it is legal, the team should have a letter from the state high school association (that's what we do in Ohio). If they can produce the letter, let him play.

I had a game last year where a girl was permitted to play with an "illegal" headband (yellow headband, purple jersey). When we asked her to remove it before the game she told us it was a protective headband (it was) because she had a couple concussions during the soccer season. Her coach had the letter from the state saying it was okay for her to wear it.

My daughter's teammate on the high school soccer team played with a hard protective mask after breaking her nose. Before their letter from the state arrived, she was not allowed to play in a game because the officials said it was illegal.

Just my two cents worth...

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by daveg144

From the description, it sounds like an illegal brace. However, if, for some reason, it is legal, the team should have a letter from the state high school association (that's what we do in Ohio). If they can produce the letter, let him play.

Under what NFHS rule do state associations get to determine whether a brace or similar item is legal? The only things I find the NFHS rules allowing is for a state association to approve use of artificial limbs (3-5-1 Note) and head covering for medical, cosmetic or religious reasons (3-5-3 Exception.)

This is totally the officials' responsibility -- and as others have said -- only the officials working that game can make that decision. Ask anyone who officiates youth girls games about how many permutations there are to allowing earrings since "she has been allowed to wear them in every other game."

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

Under what NFHS rule do state associations get to determine whether a brace or similar item is legal? The only things I find the NFHS rules allowing is for a state association to approve use of artificial limbs (3-5-1 Note) and head covering for medical, cosmetic or religious reasons (3-5-3 Exception.)

This is totally the officials' responsibility -- and as others have said -- only the officials working that game can make that decision. Ask anyone who officiates youth girls games about how many permutations there are to allowing earrings since "she has been allowed to wear them in every other game."

There is no requirement that states follow the NFHS rules to the letter. Many states have exceptions to the rules...the way illegal uniform technicals are being handled state-to-state this year is a good example.

In reality, the state athletics associations are the final authority on the rules. View the NFHS as the vendor that supplies rules, and the states simply utilize their rules, but are free to make exceptions wherever they deem fit.

[chartrusepengui]

You can always say: "Dad - I understand you want your son to be able to participate and the brace is for his benefit, but if any of the other 9 people on court get hurt because I allowed him to play with that brace, I am liable. In my judgement, the brace is illegal under the rules and the risk to others to great. You can make the decision to remove brace, tape and play or to not play.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

In reality, the state athletics associations are the final authority on the rules. View the NFHS as the vendor that supplies rules, and the states simply utilize their rules, but are free to make exceptions wherever they deem fit.

I certainly understand that. I work in a state with a number of "modifications" that are outside the NFHS rule set. But it is one thing to say it is OK to wear light yellow for the home team or to use the shot-clock and quite another to determine whether a particular item is safe. Clearly, if your state has such a blanket rule, you have to work with it. I do not believe that my state association takes on that authority -- or wants to.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

I certainly understand that. I work in a state with a number of "modifications" that are outside the NFHS rule set. But it is one thing to say it is OK to wear light yellow for the home team or to use the shot-clock and quite another to determine whether a particular item is safe. Clearly, if your state has such a blanket rule, you have to work with it. I do not believe that my state association takes on that authority -- or wants to.

All authority comes from the state. No authority actually comes from the NFHS. The vendor of the rules set thinking is absolutely spot on.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

Ask anyone who officiates youth girls games about how many permutations there are to allowing earrings since "she has been allowed to wear them in every other game."

A few years ago, I had a 6th grade girls game in our local kids rec league. It was their fifth game of the season. One girl had on taped-over earrings. I told her and her coach she could not play with the earrings on. The coach (who was her dad) said all the other refs that season allowed her to play with them on and taped. I told him that they were wrong and it wasn't going to happen here - period. I also thanked him for informing me of the error the others had made and that, since I was supervisor of officials, I would now fine each one of them. Of course, I knew they hadn't allowed this since it is a huge POE in our league, but he thought I was serious. He said "You can't do that - some of them are only HS kids and need the money." I said "Not only will I fine them, I might even fire some of the experienced ones for ignoring the rule when they knew better." Of course, I wasn't going to do any of this, but he turned bright red before he walked away.

I checked a few times during the rest of the season and that girl always had her earrings out at her games.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

A few years ago, I had a 6th grade girls game in our local kids rec league. It was their fifth game of the season. One girl had on taped-over earrings. I told her and her coach she could not play with the earrings on. The coach (who was her dad) said all the other refs that season allowed her to play with them on and taped. I told him that they were wrong and it wasn't going to happen here - period. I also thanked him for informing me of the error the others had made and that, since I was supervisor of officials, I would now fine each one of them. Of course, I knew they hadn't allowed this since it is a huge POI in our league, but he thought I was serious. He said "You can't do that - some of them are only HS kids and need the money." I said "Not only will I fine them, I might even fire some of the experienced ones for ignoring the rule when they knew better." Of course, I wasn't going to do any of this, but he turned bright red before he walked away.

I checked a few times during the rest of the season and that girl always had her earrings out at her games.

I've been in this movie before. The excuse "they can't be removed" always pops up and I politely say, sorry, she is ineligible to play. Two seconds later , they are out.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

One girl had on taped-over earrings.

I know this thread isn't about earrings, but since we're sharing. . .

I did a game with the taped earrings thing. I told the coach she couldn't play with them. My partner says to me, "You're going to make her get her ears re-pierced?"

I was dumbfounded. First of all, this comes from a fellow official. Second, I'm not making her do anything. That particular ref didn't last long, fortunately.

[Rizzo21]

Had very similar situation earlier this month so I know how you feel. Freshman game, actually the team was from the town I live in and I knew some of the coaches and players. One guy had a huge pad on his elbow. I couldn't remember the exact rule and asked my partner what he thought. He stated that at an earlier game he allowed the same thing and the incoming JV ref's gave him grief about it.

So we went and talked to the kid and asked if he had a doctor's letter. Said he didn't but if this was illegal he has a sleeve to put over it no problem. We hemmed and hawed a moment but decided that it would be best to change. Went over to bench and explained to the coaches what was happening. One assistant who I knew was kind of disgusted and said "It's only a freshman game", my partner quickly replied "it's a high school game and we play by high school rules". So he changed. I could see who was probably his Mom nearby and was kind of disgusted. Hated to rock the boat and start the game like this but you never know.

Halftime we jumped right into the book, and, uh-oh, the rule says hard objects cannot be padded but no restriction on pads only (which it was). So, before the second half began, went over and apologized to the bench for our mistake and told him the pad would be okay. He chose not to change again. I just hoped he didn't fall to the floor in the second half, elbows first (he didn't).

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Rizzo21

but no restriction on pads

Especially in girls games.

OK, Juulie and Rita, I apologize.

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Especially in girls games.

Sorry, Madonna, you can't wear that.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I would be calling the (insert twice previously name-dropped assignor here) and asking him if he actually did approve the brace. If he did, ask why? If he didn't, he probably wants to know that there is some schmuck out there saying he did.

Good point. I would have also told the dad that *in my judgement* the brace is unsafe *because* whatever. This derails the "well they let me do it yesterday" and "let's look at the rulebook" parts of the discussion. I would have also told him if his contacts think the brace is safe he should have gotten that in writing for the coach to provide.

I also agree you done good by talking to the dad.