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Mon Jan 21, 2008, 12:31pm
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kid said what to get a T
Boys Varisty game
I call a player control (lead position) and head to midcourt to report. After I am done reporting I go to assume the lead position going the other way. Said player walks by and says "You are the reason we are loosing". I T him up. 2 point game 4 minutes to go in the 4th. I have a 0 crap policy and do hand out more T's than most varisty refs. In most cases coaches and players know in advance when they are about to get one because I tell them. In this case I didnt think the warning was necessary. However several other officials have said they would ignore it based on the circumstance (game time and score) -- I told them thats their choice, and how do they expect the kids to learn where the line is. Thoughts on letting it go versus issuing the T.
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in OS I trust 
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Mon Jan 21, 2008, 12:37pm
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I have no problem with this T.
I do want to ask you what you meant by Quote:
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Mon Jan 21, 2008, 12:40pm
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I usually tell them something like if they keep on this topic/argument/wild goose chase its going to cost them. Some get it, some dont, and some dont care. So I look at it as the coach chose to get a T.
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in OS I trust
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Mon Jan 21, 2008, 12:45pm
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He puts them on double-secret probation.
Based upon his past struggles with the rules as expressed on this forum, I'm shocked that deecee is working varsity games. Of course I wouldn't have any problem with giving a kid a T for that, and the officials who said to ignore it are spineless.
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Mon Jan 21, 2008, 12:45pm
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Each of us handles things on our own and I have been given what I think is sound advice to simply say "Coach, I've heard enough" and walk away...if they persist, say it again with the stop sign and if they continue then move to T.
I feel what you are doing is baiting or challenging them..."It's gonna cost you" is like daring them to say something or telling your kids, "If you do that one more time...."
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Mon Jan 21, 2008, 12:45pm
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Quote:
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Mon Jan 21, 2008, 12:50pm
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why is that a bait? I am up front with them that they are on thin ice. I see it better than just giving them a T.
And funny comment Nevada -- you might even be surprised that I did playoffs games in the past as well.
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in OS I trust
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Mon Jan 21, 2008, 01:02pm
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Well, there is no provision in the rule book that I am aware of that says you have to give any warning but generally I simply tell them I've heard enough....I have just lowered the boom before though without any warning...
Why do I feel this way (baiting)...probably by what you wrote you say to them... Quote:
I guess it's that .. Quote:
Like I said, we each handle thing in our own manner....what I'm saying may not be in your comfort zone as what you say would not be in mine....
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Mon Jan 21, 2008, 01:38pm
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Quote:
 I know you'd not do that Rich....I'm not gonna say "it'll cost ya" just not for me...
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Mon Jan 21, 2008, 01:44pm
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There is a difference between a player saying that he doesn't agree with a call... and saying that you are the reason they are losing. By saying that he is questioning your integrity and yes.. he should be T'd up for that immediatly without warning.
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I have heard more resumes in the last 3 months then in the first 27 years I've been on this planet. Coach.. I dont care if you coached in the ncaa.. this is a 7th grade girls traveling team. 
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Mon Jan 21, 2008, 02:07pm
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Even though I was not there, I probably would have asked the player to repeat what they said. If they did not repeat what they said, then I would just let them know directly that "you might not want to go down that road with me." I would either tell the coach that he needs to take care of X player or I will, or if I did not have a chance to talk to the coach, I would just put that in my little back pocket and the next time player X does not get another chance.
It is really hard to say what I would do if no one heard the comments because if the kid was a jag off earlier in the game that would be easy. If that was the first time he said anything, I might handle it differently. I want to avoid a T anytime I can. But sometimes people put you into a situation that you have little choice. Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
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Mon Jan 21, 2008, 03:35pm
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Jeff R has some great advice. You are well within the rule book to give a T. It's all about context and your own personal style and standards.
Some players and coaches get it, and you can be direct and honest with them. Humor also works with them, because you know nothing will escalate. Others do not, and that's when you have to get firm, once. If this kid fit into the first category, I'd have given him a pass. Even in the second category, unless he had almost gotten T'd before, I'd have given him one more chance. Without profanity, unless you get horrible body language, in a tight game with not much time left, as long as it ends there, I'd let the game run its course without the T. Did that team end up winning or losing, and by what margin?
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Mon Jan 21, 2008, 03:37pm
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I think that when dealing with a verbal excahnge, it is fair to give them a chance to retract or just shut up. I had a situation on Saturday where I had just called a travelling violation on a kid. I then ended up right in front of their bench and one of the ASSistant coaches wants to talk about why that wasn't a travel. I said, "Coach, he travelled, and I'm not going to discuss it with you." He kept yapping, and I said, "Alan (who is the HC) you need to get your bench under control." AC looks at me and says, "I'm not out of control." WHACK!!
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