kid said what to get a T

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I prefer the direct approach with coaches I'm familiar with.

"If you yell across the court again, you will receive a technical foul."

Why would you use a phrase like, "it'll cost ya."?

Still too much.

Avoid phrases like that, it's too close to, "I don't want to hear another word coach!" Then the coach says, "Sorry, you are right." Now if you want to have any credibility you have to whack him for apologizing.

I'd use, "Coach I won't have you yelling comments across the floor." Simple, direct, dealing with the behavior with just an implied threat. The coach knows what is coming, but it isn't delivered in a confrontational way.

[Kelvin green]

Discretion is the better part of valor...

2 point game and 4 minutes to go in 4th and a T?

How bout using your captains or coach and tell them to get the player under control before he has to be penalized for unsportsmanlike conduct?

T's need to make to keep game neutral or game better. I doubt that this one would do either one...

[tomegun]

I'm kind of shocked. I am not bashful with my Ts at all, but I don't think I would say some of the stuff that I've heard here. I have asked a coach to please stop yelling at me. That is about all I will say to the coach before he is T'd. I will do what Rut said and ask a player to repeat himself/herself if I'm not 100% sure. If I'm 100% sure, done deal. I did have a player tell me one time, "I'm talking to you!" He was done for the night about 1 minute later.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

Discretion is the better part of valor...

2 point game and 4 minutes to go in 4th and a T?

How bout using your captains or coach and tell them to get the player under control before he has to be penalized for unsportsmanlike conduct?

T's need to make to keep game neutral or game better. I doubt that this one would do either one...

So tell us how much a player has to say to get a T in this situation? I'm not letting a kid do this blatantly in one of my games.

[BayStateRef]

At a youth travel league game on Sunday...played with rules modifications that forbid zones...one of the coaches was yapping in my ear that the other team was playing a zone. I called the coaches together and reminded them of the rule and told them it was our decision what constitued a zone.

(From the league rules:The officials at the game site have the final responsibility for interpreting the violation. If there is no advantage being gained then the official in all likelihood may not call the violation. If any coach has an issue with the rule it is to be addressed with their league coordinator - NOT the referee.)

Barely two minutes later, the complaining coach stood and screamed, "That's a zone. You have to call that a zone." The only thing I called was a technical foul. Now...my partner was trail on the table side and he ignored the coach that was just over his shoulder. I called the T from the far lead -- while his team had the ball.

The game ended just fine. No warning, no stop sign, no threats. Someone here recently said a good test of a T is what does it do to the rest of the game. This one shut up the yapper and got him to focus on coaching from his seat. It made the game a lot better. I can only imagine what this guy would have been like if I had "warned" him. Unsporting behavior is obvious to most of us. I am still amazed at how many of us find excuses for not dealing with it.

[Coltdoggs]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

Discretion is the better part of valor...

2 point game and 4 minutes to go in 4th and a T?

How bout using your captains or coach and tell them to get the player under control before he has to be penalized for unsportsmanlike conduct?

T's need to make to keep game neutral or game better. I doubt that this one would do either one...

To a point I agree with your first sentence......But I also feel there is a sportsmanship element to it as well...IMO his comment crossed over the line and called into question my credibility as an official who is unbaised nor cares who wins the game.

He can THINK that but he's not going to verbalize it and have me hear it....Let the kid learn from the situation...at the end of the day he needs to learn how to conduct himself when life get's tough....casting blame on the official or others won't cut it in the real world.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

Discretion is the better part of valor...

2 point game and 4 minutes to go in 4th and a T?

How bout using your captains or coach and tell them to get the player under control before he has to be penalized for unsportsmanlike conduct?

T's need to make to keep game neutral or game better. I doubt that this one would do either one...

I guess your integrity being questioned doesnt bother you? what's it worth to me is more than calling fouls and violations...but thats just my personal viewpoint.

A T is just another foul/violation I call. Not everything has to be done with captains and coaches, and has to be drawn out. People make choices and there are reprecussions (some good some bad). This isnt a personal judging of said kid or coach, its just a call to me. One that little Johnny earned with the period he put on the end of his sentence. One that I will call the same way 100% of the time.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by deecee

I guess your integrity being questioned doesnt bother you? what's it worth to me is more than calling fouls and violations...but thats just my personal viewpoint.

Our integrity is questioned all the time. There are degrees of that behavior. Every time you hear a reference to the foul count, that is a questioning of your integrity and I do not know most official that would automatically call a T if that issue was raised.

Originally Posted by deecee

A T is just another foul/violation I call. Not everything has to be done with captains and coaches, and has to be drawn out. People make choices and there are reprecussions (some good some bad). This isnt a personal judging of said kid or coach, its just a call to me. One that little Johnny earned with the period he put on the end of his sentence. One that I will call the same way 100% of the time.

That may be true it is just another call to you, but it is not just another call to all other parties. And if you make a call that no one hears, then unless you have such a reputation that is beyond reproach, it might get into a he said/he said kind of situation. I would like a call like this to be as obvious as possible.

Peace

[TheOracle]

Then why even post and ask your question if you're not interested in hearing somethign different? This has become a "questioning the integrity" drama-queen description, when in reality it was a frustrated kid venting his opinion of your performance (or one call). Do you have to take that? No. Is that an automatic T for all officials? No. People here just trying to give you things to think about, except NevadaRef, who thinks you shouldn't even have those games for reasons unbeknownst to the reasonable folks.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Our integrity is questioned all the time. There are degrees of that behavior. Every time you hear a reference to the foul count, that is a questioning of your integrity and I do not know most official that would automatically call a T if that issue was raised.

When this issue gets raised, if the coach's team is in the lead, I tell him that if I'm going to even up the foul count, I'll have to even up the score as well.

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Our integrity is questioned all the time. There are degrees of that behavior. Every time you hear a reference to the foul count, that is a questioning of your integrity and I do not know most official that would automatically call a T if that issue was raised. Peace

I have an issue with this integrity being questioned ideal. Questioning integrity is "You are cheating for them." Asking about a foul count, saying a call was bad, isn't that just commenting on judgment or begging for a call? I guess I rarely, if ever, feel that people question integrity, unless they perceive you have a personal problem with them. Do people say we're terrible? All the time. Is that performance, or integrity? Big line in my mind, and one that rarely gets crossed.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by tomegun

So tell us how much a player has to say to get a T in this situation? I'm not letting a kid do this blatantly in one of my games.

I could care less when this occurs during the game or what the situation is. I don't believe in letting players blatantly dump on me, like this one is doing. And if he said that about my partner(s), I'd nail his butt too.

It's a slippery slope imo. Once you let one player get away with it, to be consistent you then have to be prepared to let every player on both teams take a free shot at you. Personally, I'll be damned if I'm gonna put myself in that position.

My own opinion is that there is just way too much over-thinking going on about calling technical fouls. If it's unsporting behavior, then it's our job to deal with it.

I'm with Tom.

[deecee]

Oracle I agree with what you say here.

Jrut I disagree -- Oracle said it best -- Telling an official he's the reason you are loosing is different than complaining that we have called 6 fouls on one team versus only 2 for the other. One questions judgement (and that happens almost everytime air is put in a whistle), the other doesnt.

JR -- i agree with you here as well -- I am finding it harder to understand why I hear more and more officials try and justify a Tech (dont call that in a close game -- dont do that if he ONLY said it to you and no one else hears it). Usually the act that deserves a Tech is justification enough.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by deecee

Jrut I disagree -- Oracle said it best -- Telling an official he's the reason you are loosing is different than complaining that we have called 6 fouls on one team versus only 2 for the other. One questions judgement (and that happens almost everytime air is put in a whistle), the other doesnt.

You can disagree but that does not make your statement any more correct. When they are yelling about the foul count, they are staying you are purposely setting the fouls in one teams favor. I do not know how judgment even plays a role in that. It is just not as blatant and how you handle that is up to you. My point is there is more then one way to skin a cat. My response is that every action does not need a penalty. I want them to hang themselves so when they die I am not the only one that witnessed the gun.

Peace

[deecee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I want them to hang themselves so when they die I am not the only one that witnessed the gun.
Peace

I guess I dont officiate in the court of public opinion