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-   -   Good or No Good? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/41134-good-no-good.html)

Jurassic Referee Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:20am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref
2007-09 NFHS Basketball Officials Manual
2.6.2D and 3.6.2D

Clock malfunctions occur; there are no provisions in the rules for "do-overs." Know the rules regarding these unusual situations and apply them appropriately.

Yup, and sometimes the rules dictate having what is basically a do-over.

Situation:TO taken after a made basket with 3.0 seconds left. After the TO, thrower A1 passes along the end line to teammate A2 who makes a long throw-in down court. The timer mistakenly started the clock on the pass along the endline and the horn now goes off with the throw-in in the air. What are you going to do?

A Pennsylvania Coach Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins
And no one looking at the scoreboard could tell the difference either?

The scoreboard in the new gym at my alma mater shows tenths and hundredths during the final minute. If the clock stops at 5.82 seconds, the scoreboard shows 5:82 and no one is confused. If it stops at 3.40 seconds, it would show 3:40 and a person could be confused.

Come to think of it, there may be lights in between the MM and the SS that can change from : to . but I'm not sure about that.

ca_rumperee Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:14am

With hindsight as 20-20... what do you do?
 
from OP
Quote:

There is dead ball timeout with 3.5 seconds on the clock. Team takes it out of bounds after the timeout.
What exactly are you doing/saying both within the team of referees and to the table during this timeout? Say for 2-man and 3-man?

JRutledge Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref
I guess that can be done in Illinois since that state doesn't use the NFHS officials manual. :rolleyes:

2007-09 NFHS Basketball Officials Manual
2.6.2D and 3.6.2D

Clock malfunctions occur; there are no provisions in the rules for "do-overs." Know the rules regarding these unusual situations and apply them appropriately.

I guess you need to go back and read, because I did not even use the word do-over or suggest that you would do-over the play. I was talking about watching the clock.

Peace

jdw3018 Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge
I guess you need to go back and read, because I did not even use the word do-over or suggest that you would do-over the play. I was talking about watching the clock.

I've gotta say, JR, that this confused me:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge
With all of that being said, I would lean towards doing the entire thing over and making sure I am watching the clock.

What did you mean by this?

CoachP Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Yup, and sometimes the rules dictate having what is basically a do-over.

Situation:TO taken after a made basket with 3.0 seconds left. After the TO, thrower A1 passes along the end line to teammate A1 who makes a long throw-in down court. The timer mistakenly started the clock on the pass along the endline and the horn now goes off with the throw-in in the air. What are you going to do?

Tell A1 to stop throwing passes to himself along the endline...:p

Jurassic Referee Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachP
Tell A1 to stop throwing passes to himself along the endline...:p

<i>Mea Culpa</i> Thanks, fixed.

JRutledge Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdw3018
I've gotta say, JR, that this confused me:

What did you mean by this?

If the clock did not start properly, you are doing anything over. You are starting the game when you noticed a mistake. And if you do not have definite knowledge of how much time was should be on the clock, you cannot just make up a number and put the ball at another point. To me going back to the end line would be correcting a mistake, not doing the play over. You cannot do over a situation that technically did not even happen. I would say the same thing if the game clock started while the ball was in the air on a long pass on the throw-in.

And to prevent this from happening, watch the clock and you will at least know if the clock started properly or not.

Peace

hawk65 Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:38pm

How about this approach since there is already a dead-ball timeout?

When you know the game is on the line with a potential last shot, take a moment for an official's timeout or to visit the table during the timout. Go to the table with your partner(s) and remind the clock operator to start the clock "when it first touches any player inbounds"; T assumes the responsiblity to watch clock after handing the ball to the player for the throw-in and making a visible count should the clock not start for some reason; L (2-person crew) assumes responsibility for officiating the action on the throw-in in case B decides to use the strategy of fouling A and taking their chances with A shooting free throws instead of letting A possibly making a 3-point shot. T can continue the count but after confirming the clock has started properly can then officiate with normal T and L responsibilities for court coverage.

jdw3018 Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawk65
When you know the game is on the line with a potential last shot, take a moment for an official's timeout or to visit the table during the timout.

I've got no problem with quickly getting together to review responsibilities and someone at the table making a reminder to the clock operator is good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawk65
Go to the table with your partner(s) and remind the clock operator to start the clock "when it first touches any player inbounds"

Wrong message - you should tell the timer to watch the administering official and start the clock on his chop. This helps the timer focus on his job, not on the action.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawk65
T assumes the responsiblity to watch clock after handing the ball to the player for the throw-in and making a visible count should the clock not start for some reason; L (2-person crew) assumes responsibility for officiating the action on the throw-in in case B decides to use the strategy of fouling A and taking their chances with A shooting free throws instead of letting A possibly making a 3-point shot. T can continue the count but after confirming the clock has started properly can then officiate with normal T and L responsibilities for court coverage.

You can both officiate the throw-in action, and as the pass comes in a quick glance to make sure the clock starts is all you need. Both officials should be responsible for this with the official who doesn't have the ball in his primary being "mostly" responsible, IMO, as long as there is a clock in each official's field of vision.


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