When they come, they come in waves

[jdw3018]

Haven't called a T on a coach all year. In fact, didn't have one last year, either. I've been lucky.

Then, the last two games happened, and a similar situation in both - coach getting very demonstrative, very argumentative over calls late in a close game. Saturday H head coach didn't like the intentional foul call a partner called (two-handed shove in the back) and ended with "You all are horrible!" while staring right at me. Whack!

Tonight was more frustrating. Middle school boys...V coach is a fairly intense woman who was fairly demonstrative during the game, a few times close to the line and drew a warning from me in the 3rd quarter. Then, with her team down 3 and bringing the ball into the court, her PG gets picked clean, then there's a scrum and I come up with a held ball. She's seriously upset now, hollering (very loudly) "That's a foul! He can't grab his arm!" I looked her way (I was right beside the bench) and simply said, "He didn't grab him." Shouldn't have said anything.

She says, "Oh yes he did! He grabbed his arm. That's a foul dammit!" loud enough for the entire gym to hear. That drew the T. She threw a little fit, and her assistant settled her down. Her assistant started chirping a bit after that as I reported the T, and I walked over and calmly told her that she'd lost her box and I didn't want to hear anything out of her assistant again.

We administered the T, and then administered the throw-in. Immediate two-hand push in the back draws an intentional. Two free throws. Administer the throw-in. Same result - two-hand shove. Intentional foul. Two shots, and now she's called them off and they don't foul again as time runs out, I grab my jacket, and head for the car.

Whew. When it rains, it pours.

That said, any thoughts on the T from tonight? I wish I hadn't said anything to her, but any other thoughts?

[26 Year Gap]

Could've said, "we're done. 2-0 final." and left. After the 2nd one, it would have been very tempting. Had to be there though.

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Could've said, "we're done. 2-0 final." and left. After the 2nd one, it would have been very tempting. Had to be there though.

That would be the incorrect final score.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

That would be the incorrect final score.

Good catch. The score on the board stands if the team behind forfeits.

You are wise beyond your years.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

We administered the T, and then administered the throw-in. Immediate two-hand push in the back draws an intentional. Two free throws. Administer the throw-in. Same result - two-hand shove. Intentional foul. Two shots, and now she's called them off and they don't foul again as time runs out, I grab my jacket, and head for the car.

Two intentionals like that right in a row? Sheez, that's bad. That's a coach that needs some coaching herself. Poor kids.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Two intentionals like that right in a row? Sheez, that's bad. That's a coach that needs some coaching herself. Poor kids.

Yeah, it was unlike anything I'd seen before. The worst part was if she hadn't flown off her rocker and earned the T, her team would have had the ball back with 45 seconds on the clock down three. Instead, they had a T, Int, Int, 4 of 6 were made and her team was down 7 and the opponents had the ball with under 40 sec left...

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Two intentionals like that right in a row? Sheez, that's bad. That's a coach that needs some coaching herself. Poor kids.

Could be worse Juulie. Just before Christmas I had a Fr boys game where we called 63 fouls, all of the "had to be called" variety, and could easily have called 30 more. There were 4 intentional in the last 1:30 and 4 players DQ'd on fouls. One of those games you'd really like to forget......

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Haven't called a T on a coach all year. In fact, didn't have one last year, either. I've been lucky.

Then, the last two games happened, and a similar situation in both - coach getting very demonstrative, very argumentative over calls late in a close game. Saturday H head coach didn't like the intentional foul call a partner called (two-handed shove in the back) and ended with "You all are horrible!" while staring right at me. Whack!

Tonight was more frustrating. Middle school boys...V coach is a fairly intense woman who was fairly demonstrative during the game, a few times close to the line and drew a warning from me in the 3rd quarter. Then, with her team down 3 and bringing the ball into the court, her PG gets picked clean, then there's a scrum and I come up with a held ball. She's seriously upset now, hollering (very loudly) "That's a foul! He can't grab his arm!" I looked her way (I was right beside the bench) and simply said, "He didn't grab him." Shouldn't have said anything.

She says, "Oh yes he did! He grabbed his arm. That's a foul dammit!" loud enough for the entire gym to hear. That drew the T. She threw a little fit, and her assistant settled her down. Her assistant started chirping a bit after that as I reported the T, and I walked over and calmly told her that she'd lost her box and I didn't want to hear anything out of her assistant again.

We administered the T, and then administered the throw-in. Immediate two-hand push in the back draws an intentional. Two free throws. Administer the throw-in. Same result - two-hand shove. Intentional foul. Two shots, and now she's called them off and they don't foul again as time runs out, I grab my jacket, and head for the car.

Whew. When it rains, it pours.

That said, any thoughts on the T from tonight? I wish I hadn't said anything to her, but any other thoughts?

"She lost her box" Isn't that right between..........................oh never mind.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

She's seriously upset now, hollering (very loudly) "That's a foul! He can't grab his arm!" I looked her way (I was right beside the bench) and simply said, "He didn't grab him." Shouldn't have said anything.

She says, "Oh yes he did! He grabbed his arm. That's a foul dammit!" loud enough for the entire gym to hear. That drew the T. She threw a little fit, and her assistant settled her down. Her assistant started chirping a bit after that as I reported the T, and I walked over and calmly told her that she'd lost her box and I didn't want to hear anything out of her assistant again.

You are learning quickly. Nice job with the intentionals.
I have a few comments about the above for you.
You have already quite correctly acknowledged that you should not have said anything to the coach in response to her comment. Remember reply to questions, not statements.
What happened to you was that you got drawn into a "yes, he did," --"no, he didn't,"--"yes, he did," pissing contest. Nothing good can come from that as evidenced by the T that resulted from your situation. Of course, all of us have been there and made that mistake.

Lastly, I would recommend that you take care of your business and then get out of the area and allow your partner to inform the coach about the loss of the box privileges. It will often help prevent the situation from spiraling further down the drain.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Lastly, I would recommend that you take care of your business and then get out of the area and allow your partner to inform the coach about the loss of the box privileges. It will often help prevent the situation from spiraling further down the drain.

Thanks for the feedback, Nevada...much appreciated and I agree with everything you wrote.

As far as the loss of box privileges, I was hung out just a bit - we were working 2-man (one of the few I'll work here in SC) and my partner had already worked his way down court to administer the FTs, home subbed a shooter to shoot the Ts (this is what precipitated the assistant chirping), so that was when I took the opportunity to inform the coach and warn against the assistant's talking.

How would you, or anyone else who wants to comment, have handled that situation?

[Nevadaref]

I usually have a brief chat with one of my partners after calling a T just to ensure that we are on the same page and administer it properly. If your partner takes off to the other end to administer the FTs, I would report the T, and then turn and walk to the division line opposite the table where the ensuing throw-in spot will be. This gives the coach a few seconds to vent and then he/she usually calms down and takes a seat without requiring a word. If one is necessary, your partner should be able to take care of that when he comes back down the floor.

[Coltdoggs]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Remember reply to questions, not statements.

Nevada...7 years of doing this and I've NEVER had anyone say that and it makes a whole helluva lot of sense!

Thanks for posting that...

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

She says, "Oh yes he did! He grabbed his arm. That's a foul dammit!" loud enough for the entire gym to hear.

That said, any thoughts on the T from tonight? I wish I hadn't said anything to her, but any other thoughts?

Maybe it's just me, but if i was an official, I'd have little to no tolerance for profanity directed towards an official, especially at the lower levels. I even believe there is an NCAA case play that says an official could possibly call a Flagrant T for profanity directed at an official.

Yes, people in volved in a game can get caught up in the moment (myself included), but thats not an excuse for profanity.

{/soapbox}

[Ref_in_Alberta]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Haven't called a T on a coach all year. In fact, didn't have one last year, either. I've been lucky.

Then, the last two games happened, and a similar situation in both - coach getting very demonstrative, very argumentative over calls late in a close game. Saturday H head coach didn't like the intentional foul call a partner called (two-handed shove in the back) and ended with "You all are horrible!" while staring right at me. Whack!

Tonight was more frustrating. Middle school boys...V coach is a fairly intense woman who was fairly demonstrative during the game, a few times close to the line and drew a warning from me in the 3rd quarter. Then, with her team down 3 and bringing the ball into the court, her PG gets picked clean, then there's a scrum and I come up with a held ball. She's seriously upset now, hollering (very loudly) "That's a foul! He can't grab his arm!" I looked her way (I was right beside the bench) and simply said, "He didn't grab him." Shouldn't have said anything.

She says, "Oh yes he did! He grabbed his arm. That's a foul dammit!" loud enough for the entire gym to hear. That drew the T. She threw a little fit, and her assistant settled her down. Her assistant started chirping a bit after that as I reported the T, and I walked over and calmly told her that she'd lost her box and I didn't want to hear anything out of her assistant again.

We administered the T, and then administered the throw-in. Immediate two-hand push in the back draws an intentional. Two free throws. Administer the throw-in. Same result - two-hand shove. Intentional foul. Two shots, and now she's called them off and they don't foul again as time runs out, I grab my jacket, and head for the car.

Whew. When it rains, it pours.

That said, any thoughts on the T from tonight? I wish I hadn't said anything to her, but any other thoughts?

Sounds like both T's were warrented.

Just as a point of interest 2 unsportsmanlike fouls in FIBA (same as an intentional in NF & NCAA) charged to the same player results in a disqualification (ejection).