Administrative T or bookkeeping error?

[Back In The Saddle]

A couple of minutes into the first quarter of a JVB game the H bookkeeper calls me over and tells me they have a wrong number in the book and that she knows we'll need to assess a T for this. We assess an administrative T. Coach is okay with it. Game goes on.

Later in the day I got thinking more about the situation. Though it didn't occur to me at the time, I know that the bookkeeper copied the lineup directly from the previous page of the scorebook. Assuming that the number was correct on the previous game's lineup, would this be classified as a bookkeeping mistake rather than an incorrect number? It seems to be pretty much exactly as if the coach handed the scorekeeper a correct written lineup, but the scorekeeper entered it incorrectly into the book.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Though it didn't occur to me at the time, I know that the bookkeeper copied the lineup directly from the previous page of the scorebook. Assuming that the number was correct on the previous game's lineup, would this be classified as a bookkeeping mistake rather than an incorrect number?

If she copied the number wrong, no "T" can be assessed. The technical foul is for the team providing a wrong number. They didn't do that.

[stripes]

It is the coach's responsibility to make sure that the book is filled out correctly. It may be simply a bookkeeping error, but it is their issue to resolve. I have gone as far as having an asst. coach check the book prior to the game to make sure that everything is correct and then have the asst. coach initial the book to show that it has been checked and approved. If there is any error after that, I just have the head coach check with the asst. about the problem.

Just one less thing to have the coach think I screwed up.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by stripes

Just one less thing to have the coach think I screwed up.

How could this possibly be something the R screwed up? We don't supply the roster, we don't write the numbers in the book, we aren't required to compare the book to the players on the floor.

[JRutledge]

Always make sure that the information comes from the team and not a bookkeeper doing something on their own. If you have any questions, verify the information with head coach. But there are times when the person copying the book does not use completely what was given to them. This usually happens during tournaments where players are not properly put in the program. This is why when I check the book I make sure it comes from the team and not some other source other than the team. Usually the team provides the information with their own book.

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by stripes

It is the coach's responsibility to make sure that the book is filled out correctly.

No, it's not. It's the coach's responsibility to be sure teh correct information is given to the scorekeeper.

[mj]

Was the player in the game at the time?

[Kelvin green]

I have no problems with the T- How do you know the last game was correct? or that shirts were not changed etc. The number was not right...

I had one the other night where the assiatnt coach could not figure out how to put 21 names from all the girls in the book so she left off a bunch of players and did not tell the head coach (or us) #33 then comes on to the floor... We administer the administrative T.. we go about another minute and realized that I did not tell the book that this is the only penalty... The next whistle as I head to the table we get another buzzer because #11 no goes in and the visiting book complains it should be another T... I explain it is one admin T....The visiting book tells me there mut be a penalty for having too many people on the roster and how was she supposed to keep score for these girls... I told her It was not my issue and she'd have to figure it out...

Of course my credibility is now shot to H&&ll because the the newspaper had an article about Bryce Valley v Tropic that had 4 T's because the coach decided to play his younger girsl because someone was up 50 points....

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

I have no problems with the T- How do you know the last game was correct? or that shirts were not changed etc. The number was not right...

It doesn't matter if the last game was correct or if the shirts were not changed, etc.

When the bookkeepper says there's a problem, you ask where she got the information that she put into the book. If she says she copied if off of whatever, then you check that whatever. If the copying was done correctly, then you give a T. If it was copied incorrectly, and the original is correct, it's just a bookkeeppiinngg error. Couldn't be simpler.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

This year I have started to type out my rosters (I serve as a Varsity Boys and Girls Scorekeeper) and those of our opponents. For those rosters posted on MaxPreps without numbers I have that team's scorekeeper write their numbers in on the sheet and then I copy them into the book myself. When I have numbers already from MaxPreps or another source then I have that team's scorer verify that the numbers are correct and if an issue arises I ask the coach myself for correct information. While doing this I give the opposing scorekeeper a copy of our roster.

[RCBSports]

Originally Posted by stripes

It is the coach's responsibility to make sure that the book is filled out correctly. It may be simply a bookkeeping error, but it is their issue to resolve. I have gone as far as having an asst. coach check the book prior to the game to make sure that everything is correct and then have the asst. coach initial the book to show that it has been checked and approved. If there is any error after that, I just have the head coach check with the asst. about the problem.

Just one less thing to have the coach think I screwed up.

I did this during the scrimmages I worked. I also had the head coach fill out the book, that way, if there was a mistake, it's solely on the coach. I think that may going overboard, but never had any problems.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

This year I have started to type out my rosters (I serve as a Varsity Boys and Girls Scorekeeper) and those of our opponents. For those rosters posted on MaxPreps without numbers I have that team's scorekeeper write their numbers in on the sheet and then I copy them into the book myself. When I have numbers already from MaxPreps or another source then I have that team's scorer verify that the numbers are correct and if an issue arises I ask the coach myself for correct information. While doing this I give the opposing scorekeeper a copy of our roster.

I have a sheet with all 4 of our CYO team lineups printed off. That way all I have to do is tell opposing scorers of any scratches or last-second changes.

Now that our league season (double round-robin) has completed the first half of the schedule, I will be giving the opposing scorer their roster from our first meeting and have them give me any changes since the last time.

I also wish teams would prepare their rosters numerically. When I am transferring an opponent's roster that is in random order, I always worry I'll miss someone or make an error, even after I've re-matched everythign up to make sure.

[stripes]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

How could this possibly be something the R screwed up? We don't supply the roster, we don't write the numbers in the book, we aren't required to compare the book to the players on the floor.

Never said we did...only that we can be blamed for it.

[stripes]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

No, it's not. It's the coach's responsibility to be sure teh correct information is given to the scorekeeper.

Just like being the president...the buck stops somewhere. Having a coach check the book makes that coach take ownership of what happened. I have never had a problem after a coach checks the book.

[stripes]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

Of course my credibility is now shot to H&&ll because the the newspaper had an article about Bryce Valley v Tropic that had 4 T's because the coach decided to play his younger girsl because someone was up 50 points....

I read that story in the paper. Boy are you lucky to get the really great games...